Government run health care

[pomtzu]

And if you are on welfare it does mean that you are either mentally unable to take care of yourself or physically not, able or both. What other option is there?

Maybe I should do what Mary said - just shut up because this will fall on deaf ears - but what the heck..............

I fail to see where someone who has lost their job because of the economy and needs help, falls into this category, as do a lot of other scenarios.........

Mentally unable??? - that's someone who doesn't have their wits about them, perhaps "slow", perhaps suffering in a depressive state, etc.

Physically unable??? - broken bones, auto accident, etc.


The person who lost their job and may need some assistance, is most likely very lucid and in good health. So how do figure that they are declaring themselves physically and mentally unable to care for themselves??? What puts them in that category???
Sorry - but I still say that is a very insulting and degrading and uninformed statement to make!

[Miss Z]

Purely on a point of interest (and I say that as I've often been told to keep my big English nose out of American politics on this site before )...

I recently read an article in the Times about how the Republican National Committee is fearful that Obama is aiming to recreate an American version of the National Health Service that we have over here in Great Britain. According to some members of this committee, our free, government-run healthcare is 'evil' and 'socialist'.

However, with this thread speaking specifically about those on benefits and welfare and the likes, would this sort of health care not be hugely beneficial for people in those situations?

[pomtzu]

However, with this thread speaking specifically about those on benefits and welfare and the likes, would this sort of health care not be hugely beneficial for people in those situations?

There already is health care available to these people. The point is the people who are on assistance to start with. The OP was making reference to them being on Welfare to start with, and how people abuse the system and some make that their way of life, instead of getting out and doing for themselves.

Maybe you have to be American to get the total picture???...........

[Miss Z]

I don't think I was totally clear in what I meant, sorry. What I was trying to get across is that with a system like our NHS, perhaps there would be less 'abuse of the system', as there would be no need to make claims for a new child , or whatever else. It would be less of a strain on the taxpayer (as I also read in this article that the doctor can pass on bills of those on Medicare/Medicaid to the taxpayer, whether this is correct or not, I don't know, please correct me if this is not the case).

I also read that about 47 million Americans fear becoming ill as they know they cannot pay the doctor's fees. To me, at least, that's quite frightening.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Ellie, I consider you one of the most up to date, educated, members of this board. I am listening to everything you've said. My mother has Medicare and another insurance. If she didn't have the other insurance, she would be paying out the yazoo for everything. There are many Americans that are unable to work that aren't able to secure other private healthcare because of the cost. Medicare isn't covering all their expenses so who is? They are. I see some of these older people in the pharmacies paying $300-$500 for their monthly rx's because they're not listed on the $4 list. Believe me, no one is taking care of these people but their less than adequate SS checks.

This thread takes me back to the Appalachian thread we had many months ago. It's the same thing, different topic.

Marigold: I think you made some blanket statements in the beginning of your post that weren't entirely true. However, I do see that the welfare system is possibly overrun with people misusing the system. I believe the arguments that have arisen here are because you are, once again(Re: Appalachian thread), listing apples and oranges.

[pomtzu]

Thanks Terry, but I only speak from experience. I know that some people figure seniors "have it made" with Medicare, but nothing could be further from the truth. Yes - it does provide some coverage which of course is better than nothing, but we also pay for it each month after paying for it all our working lives too! That amounts to pretty high premiums if you look at it that way.
I consider myself fortunate that I am able to afford a supplemental policy and I don't know how I could possibly pay my medical bills without it. Even a relatively minor illness or procedure could end up costing thousands out of pocket before all was said or done. Quite a sobering thought, but look at the millions of folks that don't have additional insurance because they can't afford it.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I just corrected my post to read a little better. I originally said she would be in trouble without Medicare. I meant the other insurance. I am the person that takes her to the doctor, deals with her medical issues, makes all her phone calls, etc. Her supplemental is paying for the bulk of her expenses. Even with both, she still has two rx's that she pays almost $100 monthly to get filled. Those are the non generic ones.

My mother is fortunate that she worked until she was almost 80. This is how she keeps her little supplemental policy. She was able to take it with her when she retired. Even working until she was 80, she still gets little or no help from the government.

Zara: What you heard about all the Americans unable to afford care is absolutely right. We have no hope. Our government only helps those under certain circumstances. Many of us are praying we don't have a catastrophic illness for more reasons than one.

[pomtzu]

I just corrected my post to read a little better. I originally said she would be in trouble without Medicare. I meant the other insurance. I am the person that takes her to the doctor, deals with her medical issues, makes all her phone calls, etc. Her supplemental is paying for the bulk of her expenses. Even with both, she still has two rx's that she pays almost $100 monthly to get filled. Those are the non generic ones.

My mother is fortunate that she worked until she was almost 80. This is how she keeps her little supplemental policy. She was able to take it with her when she retired. Even working until she was 80, she still gets little or no help from the government.

Zara: What you heard about all the Americans unable to afford care is absolutely right. We have no hope. Our government only helps those under certain circumstances. Many of us are praying we don't have a catastrophic illness for more reasons than one.

I knew what you meant............

And BIG kudos to your Mom! That's one long stint in the work force.

[Miss Z]

Zara: What you heard about all the Americans unable to afford care is absolutely right. We have no hope. Our government only helps those under certain circumstances. Many of us are praying we don't have a catastrophic illness for more reasons than one.

You see, to me that just seems so sad. Private doctors are so expensive here too, and if the NHS were not here, so many British people would be the same. What struck me most about the article is that committees refuse to give the idea a second thought because it is different, and therefore 'bad', even though it seems it could benefit so many people who have a right to be cared for, should they become ill.

[Miranda_Rae]

First off I did not read all the pages, just the first page so if I am saying something taht is off track or not following the conversation I apologize. I just was reading some of hte things said and they REALLY struck home for me and would like to comment on them. And here I go.

If you are on welfare be it a week or a year or 10 years it is because for whatever reason you cannot take care of yourself finanically. Welfare helps that is what it is there for. People on welfare declare themselves unable to support themselves. Is that not correct? What other reason is there to be on welfare? You can't support yourself and you go and apply for help in food stamps and housing etc..

We need to make people more responsible for themselves, educate them so they can work and make a decent living.

One of my best friends is on food stamps and she is one of the hardest workers I know. She has 2 kids and one on the way. She is a cook at a restaurant and the reason shes on food stamps is because in this economy it is VERY hard to support a family on one income. Her fiancee works, but odd jobs because it is very hard to find jobs that keep people year around around here. I believe she wouldn't care about food stamps or assistance, but because she has children she wants them feed and clothed. I personally do not find welfare bad, only when the system is misused (which I have known a few) who purposely choose not to get a job beause they do not feel like working.

How are we supposed to educate people if they do not have the money? And what if people are responsible but they just do not have the money to go to college? Is the government supposed to pay for that also?

When I refer to people mentally unable to support themselves I speak of people who are depressed, bi-polar, vets with PTSD, people with all types of mental disorders are on welfare. Many homeless people also have mental disorders and are not on meds, even when help is available. Having a mental disorder is nothing to be ashamed of, welfare is there to help. People unable to hold jobs, cope with life because of mental illness are on welfare and yes that is what it is there for. People who suffer from depression are in deep pain and deserve help.
I am talking about those that abuse the system not those that deserve our help. I never mentioned people who lost their job. The only slackers I mentioned are those that have numorous kids with different fathers who will not or cannot support themselves. No where in my post did I bash anyone who is hardworking. I am talking about the Jerry Springer/Maury Povich crowd. And don't kid yourself they make up a huge amount of welfare people and take huge amounts of money. In these difficult times anyone of us can lose our home, or job. We are hard working, honest and deserve help.

Alright I am not trying to start a fight but i found this comment very uneducated. I have Borderline Personality disorder which is listed as a mental illness. If left untreated mental illnesses can lead to where you can not work anymore, but i think we should help educate people to get help before it gets to that point. First off, meds does NOT fix everything. When someone has a mental illness it requires therapy and sometimes therapy and meds. I believe that getting people help for their problems rather than putting them on a welfare program for food stamps and housing is more important. Whereas that is important also because people need food and a roof over their head, but they also need the help that could help them with their mental illnesses. People can not change the world but they can start in the small corners of their area.

Secondly the comment about not having people on welfare who have numerous kids with numerous fathers, did it occur that they may also have numerous mental illnesses that cause them to make the poor choices that got them into those situations so therefor they would "qualify" to be on welfare. I am just pointing out some thoughts that I had as I have been through the mental health circus for years and have met many different people in many different situations that have been on welfare and that have not. These were just my thoughts that crossed my mind due to where I have been and waht I have seen.