Does anyone watch Dog Whisperer?

[pomtzu]

Thank you too!

I agree with you.

Nice to see someone level-headed and friendly on here, it seems like we need more on this forum!

I feel that for the most part, people on here are level-headed and friendly. They are also strong willed, and therefore can come across as angry and even opinionated. I don't think there's a person here that doesn't love animals, and therefore they have very strong opinions and attitudes about animal care, training, etc, etc. No one tries to be mean spirited, but sometimes in expressing opinions they are passionate about, can come across in a manner that does not appear very kind.

We really are a lovable bunch - just ask us!!!

[bckrazy]

Put me in my place? Please. Alpha rolls might work on supressing your dog's behaviors, but it won't supress mine. Sorry.

I agree that the alpha roll is a primal process. The only reason that a dog FORCEFULLY flips another onto it's back and holds it by the neck is when they intend to kill. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. Have you read any current dog behavior/body language books... which were written by licensed, certified, proven behaviorists?

Also, almost all of your argument is regurgitated from aggressive positive trainers, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the trainer who helped your dog also brainwashed you into hating and blocking out all other methods

Yes. Just as your argument is regurgitated from aggressive CM followers. I don't get brainwashed, by anyone. My training techniques are based on the past 6 years of my life (since I was 14) of training, working with dogs, reading, seminars, and personal experiences. My mentors are amazing trainers who have saved the lives of people and dogs without laying a hand on anyone, and they are not in the least bit aggressive, but they are educated and they are confident in their beliefs. As a matter of fact, I use verbal corrections, and I am not 100% positive, even though most of my trainers are. I do believe that one should do what works for their dog, but I will never support physically reprimanding dogs, ever. That doesn't mean I'm going to shun anyone who does, it's my personal opinion.

"his glamourized show", wow, you don't stop with the stereotypical positive-trainer, anger-filled, distorted, alluded, ill-informed arguments, there isn't even bother in responding to that.

Stereotypical positive-trainer? Brainwashed? Wowza. I thought you said you supported all kinds of training? I guess not. Honestly, if anyone is easily angered, I don't feel that it's me here. I'm sharing my opinion. I never attacked you personally, I expressed my opinion about Cesar Millan, as is the topic of this thread. YOU are doing the personal attacks, and getting worked up over a Cesar Millan thread. Obviously, your beliefs aren't as middle of the road as you try to make them seem, as you act like my feelings about Cesar are a personal stab at you. I do find it reallyyy amusing that you call ME brainwashed, when you're acting like Cesar is your messiah or something.

I will explain. I called the show "glamorized" because, to an extent, any TV show is glamorized. Cutting and editing can change everything. Also, you don't see behind the scenes. You don't see the dogs who turned around and bit their owners when they applied CM's techniques. You don't see the dogs that have died in his care. You don't see the whole story, you see exactly what CM and NGC want you to see.

LOL, despite your arrogence, I actually agree with you here, I just wanted to get a feel for this forum and the people on it, and I have.

I'm not the only person on this forum. I have no problem with you being here, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and smile when I disagree with something. How am I arrogant when you're calling me an unkind person? That hurts my feelings, there is a lot more to me than a Dog Whisperer thread.

[bckrazy]

For you, I would recommend, rather than reading so many "licensed, positive-only books", spend some time around a pack of dogs.

I love nothing more than spending time around dogs. My dogs make me happier than anyone I know. My weekends are filled with going to the beach with my dogs and my friend's dogs, dog parks, Flyball/Agility/Obedience, as are as many weekdays as possible. I am fascinated and continually amazed by the personalities, idiosyncrasies, and the way dogs communicate with each other and with me. I enjoy reading books to gain insight and new perspectives from those who are more experienced and knowledgable, and just as passionate, as I am.

May I ask what exactly you are? As you provoked the question in saying "there is a lot more to me than a Dog Whisperer thread." Please, I would really like to know. Personally, my life is around canids, wild, and domestic, and I devote my life to understanding, rehabilitating, and relating to dogs on a natural level that they can relate to.

Well, I couldn't really answer that in just one post. I can be very, very giving and compassionate and silly one moment and as serious as a heartattack the next. There are few things that I am passionate about, but those few things mean the world to me and I am unwavering in my feelings about them. One of those things is dogs. I feel closer and more touched by my dogs than 99.9% of people, but despite that, I know I am not a dog and will never fully relate to them. I love to find ways to relate to them, through natural motivators (food, play, affection, etc) and through changing the way I move/sound/act/etc, but I feel that there is only so much I can do as an awkward human being to communicate with my dogs. I know my timing will never be the same as a dog. I know my hands are no replacement for a dog's expertly inhibited mouth. I know I couldn't even begin to express the same emotions through subtle postures and vocalizations the way that dogs do. I suppose that is the biggest difference between us - I see the dog/human bond as very strong and very valid, but I do not feel that I am warranted to use physical force in an attempt to emulate dogs, when the consequences and affects of it could be devestating. That is my opinion. For me, I work with what I have, to make my life and my dog's lives the absolute best that they can be together.

To me, words mean little, action speaks louder than words. And as far as words go, I'm almost out of them, I'm very tired and have dogs to attend to.

I agree.

I came on this forum to help people with their dogs problems and to spread peace, not to debate training methods.

Nobody to this day has been able to tell me why negative people are so powerful, how you have managed to bring out so much negativeness in me is truly bewildering, but you have helped me learn about myself, and for that, I thank you.

Well... negativeness and all, you DID learn something about yourself, and that's why debates can be very fulfilling. I am all for spreading peace, but peace can hardly be achieved without being at peace enough with yourself to be able to openly express your feelings.

[bckrazy]

Honestly, I'd be happy for you to show me some positive training techniques, but I don't know if you would grant me the same honour for you? With regards to natural techniques.

I would love to discuss training techniques! Always. I can't promise I'll use them, but I will definitely take them into consideration and appreciate them.

I am a huge fan of clicker training, for teaching new behaviors and strengthening training with distractions. One of my favorite uses of the clicker is teaching my dogs to stay nearby when we're on off-leash walks on trails, in the woods, on the beach, etc. They, of course, want to explore, and I want them to, but I also want them to WANT to check in on me often and stay close. I used to repeatedly tell them to "come", which did work, but they were simply responding to a command rather than choosing to be near me. I started to click/treat every time they would turn to look at me, then I phased that out to only click/treating every time they came to my side by choice, then I began to only click/treat every few times and praise/pet the rest of the time. Now, we can go on an hour long walk and they will check in on me consistently, and stay very close, without any click/treat at all. I will do it every so often to keep the positive association, but it's not necessary, it has become second nature. Instead of before, where it was "Omg I get to run around and explore!" it's now "Omg I get to explore... but, wait, staying close is a good thing too!" and I don't have to pester them about it. Clickers aren't necessary, but they help tremendously to mark the "checking in" behavior. Their willingness to stay close has really come in handy, if I need to leash them or get their attention quickly. Fozzie actually stays by me too much! D: I have to tell him to go on, because he tends to constantly work for a click/treat/pet/approval.

Honestly, I don't care where my dog is located (behind me or in front of me) as long as they are paying attention to me and attentive of my commands. I see soooo many people jerking their dogs around behind them, because "leaders walk in front", but just because a dog is walking behind you doesn't mean they are respectful. Particularly in most cases where it takes constant leash corrections to achieve the dog walking behind you.

Can I just bring up one more thing, no dog has died as a result of Cesar's techniques or subsequently in his care, in-fact, from a totally neutral point of view, Cesar has saved many, many dogs from death.

My bad... a dog nearly died in his care.

As a result of his techniques? I can say, by an acquaintence of mine, yes. Not killed by him personally, but from some one emulating the show and getting attacked then euthanizing the dog, as countless dog owners do without any legitimate knowledge or research of dog behavior. It's great that there is a warning during the show, but that is in place to protect the company only, not the millions of viewers.

I completely support giving dogs plenty of healthy exercise, restrictions, and boundaries, and I'm sure Cesar has saved dogs. But, would those dogs have also been saved, and been more stable/sound dogs if trained by a qualified positive-reinforcement behaviorist? We'll never know. I'm going to guess, yes, as my behaviorists have saved numerous dogs on the brink of euthanasia as well.

[caseysmom]

Just gotta say George you have Erica (bccrazy) all wrong, she is an extremely level headed young lady with a good head on her shoulders.

I have met her in person and she is a very kind person and very good with her dogs and dog belonging to other people.

You on the other hand are coming across really rude imho.

We tend to try to help people on here not to pacify each other but provide true help, that can only help when true advice is given, not just smiley faces.

[sweet72947]

I am another member who does not believe in Dominance Theory. Dominance theory came about from studies of wolves. However these studies were faulty, being that the wolves studied were captive populations in zoos. Here is an interesting PDF for those who care to read it: http://www.wolf.org/wolves/news/iwma.../alphawolf.pdf

Also, the wolf is so far removed from the dog in so many ways that I believe it is a fallacy to base our interactions with dogs on how wolves interact with each other. There was a study that was done with a dog and a wolf pup raised in captivity. They set up a test where they had to pull a rope to get at treat. When the dog pulled the rope and didn't get a treat, the dog looked to the human for help. The wolf just kept on pulling. Dogs have been with us for a very long time throughout the evolution of society, and in that time they have learned to read our body language remarkably well. Point your hand and the dog will look where your hand is pointing. My cat doesn't do that, she just watches my hand movement.

The point of my rambling is, with a creature who looks to us for guidance, who is so in tune to our behavior, I prefer to teach them what to do and how to behave instead of simply trying to punish the bad behavior out of them.