Does anyone watch Dog Whisperer?

[Seravieve]

The difference between Its Me Or The Dog and CM is that Cesar's cases are more extreme. Victoria takes on cases like dogs peeing in the house... Cesar deals with usually aggressive dogs. Its different... And sure its all entertainment. That's why its still on tv. I watched probably a full season of IMOTD and gave up. I'd have my dvr record them and watch them several at a time on Saturdays... I don't find her skills as effective.

[dreamparkingspace]

I'm not trying to start anything, but the last poster made a good point...Cesar takes on difficult cases and even saves dogs lives. Victoria is helpful too, but she usually just teaches dogs not to pee in the house. Even I could do that.

[bckrazy]

I don't want to start anything either... obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is a little bit stronger, due to all of the bad experiences I've had with people using CM "techniques". I have witnessed first hand the horrible impact that some of his teachings have had on dogs and people. I know some one whose dog attacked them and was PTS because of using his exact techniques. Not the basic stuff, like exercise, calmness, and tsssing... what really scares me is the physical confrontation, rough handling, alpha rolling, that garbage.

As far as IMOTD, I have seen shows featuring dogs who had bitten people and who were seriously dog aggressive. Victoria does not push the dogs to the point of attacking her on her show, she desensitizes and conditions the dogs gradually. The difference is that the process isn't sensationalized and the results aren't instantaneous which does make it a lot less entertaining but a lot more practical. Changing the way that a dog thinks, reacts, and processes stimulus (IMHO) is not as easy is pinning them to the ground until they cease to do anything.

I have seen many, many episodes of the Dog Whisperer involving dogs who are nothing but rude, good-natured and untrained... he still alpha rolls them, hand-bites them, and intimidates them into a state of shut down. Just today, there was an adorable, delightful Pit Bull puppy who jumped all over people and excitedly mouthed them. He could have been EASILY trained that sitting and being polite was the only thing that he got him attention and praise, this was basic puppy raising. The puppy was rolled over on his side, out of fear, and Cesar got on him and held him down. The puppy actually lunged at him, in a serious way. I would much rather have a friendly, obnoxious dog than a sedate, fearful dog who sees human hands as a source of pain and reprimand.

[pomtzu]

All I can say is, some methods are for some people, some methods are for others. One thing is for sure, Cesar Millan never goes with anger, hate or resentment, only love, and he does not fail to leave peace and happiness in his wake.
I can tell you that the only thing I have felt in the wake of all you "Anti-Cesar" people is anger, frustration, anxiety and the temptation to get angry and tell you how much I disagree. But, being a natural behaviourist myself, whom agrees and supports all other methods (including positive only training!) I am happy just to smile and move on.
This message is really just to try and help some of you open your eyes, look at the good things, not only in other methods, but life too. I mean, on a serious note, you're sitting there writing how much you disagree with Cesar, but in the end, who's listening? How do you feel when you write them? Happy? And what is it solving? And, on a less serious note, does Cesar even care!
Try and redirect some of that anger and resentment into a nice smile!

Go with peace.



George

A very interesting post. Thank you.

And just for the record - I enjoy watching Dog Whisperer and always am amazed at the results he gets. I don't necessarily feel that people should try his methods at home. It's always best to leave most of what he does to a trained professional. IMHO of course.

[pomtzu]

Thank you too!

I agree with you.

Nice to see someone level-headed and friendly on here, it seems like we need more on this forum!

I feel that for the most part, people on here are level-headed and friendly. They are also strong willed, and therefore can come across as angry and even opinionated. I don't think there's a person here that doesn't love animals, and therefore they have very strong opinions and attitudes about animal care, training, etc, etc. No one tries to be mean spirited, but sometimes in expressing opinions they are passionate about, can come across in a manner that does not appear very kind.

We really are a lovable bunch - just ask us!!!

[bckrazy]

Put me in my place? Please. Alpha rolls might work on supressing your dog's behaviors, but it won't supress mine. Sorry.

I agree that the alpha roll is a primal process. The only reason that a dog FORCEFULLY flips another onto it's back and holds it by the neck is when they intend to kill. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. Have you read any current dog behavior/body language books... which were written by licensed, certified, proven behaviorists?

Also, almost all of your argument is regurgitated from aggressive positive trainers, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the trainer who helped your dog also brainwashed you into hating and blocking out all other methods

Yes. Just as your argument is regurgitated from aggressive CM followers. I don't get brainwashed, by anyone. My training techniques are based on the past 6 years of my life (since I was 14) of training, working with dogs, reading, seminars, and personal experiences. My mentors are amazing trainers who have saved the lives of people and dogs without laying a hand on anyone, and they are not in the least bit aggressive, but they are educated and they are confident in their beliefs. As a matter of fact, I use verbal corrections, and I am not 100% positive, even though most of my trainers are. I do believe that one should do what works for their dog, but I will never support physically reprimanding dogs, ever. That doesn't mean I'm going to shun anyone who does, it's my personal opinion.

"his glamourized show", wow, you don't stop with the stereotypical positive-trainer, anger-filled, distorted, alluded, ill-informed arguments, there isn't even bother in responding to that.

Stereotypical positive-trainer? Brainwashed? Wowza. I thought you said you supported all kinds of training? I guess not. Honestly, if anyone is easily angered, I don't feel that it's me here. I'm sharing my opinion. I never attacked you personally, I expressed my opinion about Cesar Millan, as is the topic of this thread. YOU are doing the personal attacks, and getting worked up over a Cesar Millan thread. Obviously, your beliefs aren't as middle of the road as you try to make them seem, as you act like my feelings about Cesar are a personal stab at you. I do find it reallyyy amusing that you call ME brainwashed, when you're acting like Cesar is your messiah or something.

I will explain. I called the show "glamorized" because, to an extent, any TV show is glamorized. Cutting and editing can change everything. Also, you don't see behind the scenes. You don't see the dogs who turned around and bit their owners when they applied CM's techniques. You don't see the dogs that have died in his care. You don't see the whole story, you see exactly what CM and NGC want you to see.

LOL, despite your arrogence, I actually agree with you here, I just wanted to get a feel for this forum and the people on it, and I have.

I'm not the only person on this forum. I have no problem with you being here, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and smile when I disagree with something. How am I arrogant when you're calling me an unkind person? That hurts my feelings, there is a lot more to me than a Dog Whisperer thread.

[bckrazy]

For you, I would recommend, rather than reading so many "licensed, positive-only books", spend some time around a pack of dogs.

I love nothing more than spending time around dogs. My dogs make me happier than anyone I know. My weekends are filled with going to the beach with my dogs and my friend's dogs, dog parks, Flyball/Agility/Obedience, as are as many weekdays as possible. I am fascinated and continually amazed by the personalities, idiosyncrasies, and the way dogs communicate with each other and with me. I enjoy reading books to gain insight and new perspectives from those who are more experienced and knowledgable, and just as passionate, as I am.

May I ask what exactly you are? As you provoked the question in saying "there is a lot more to me than a Dog Whisperer thread." Please, I would really like to know. Personally, my life is around canids, wild, and domestic, and I devote my life to understanding, rehabilitating, and relating to dogs on a natural level that they can relate to.

Well, I couldn't really answer that in just one post. I can be very, very giving and compassionate and silly one moment and as serious as a heartattack the next. There are few things that I am passionate about, but those few things mean the world to me and I am unwavering in my feelings about them. One of those things is dogs. I feel closer and more touched by my dogs than 99.9% of people, but despite that, I know I am not a dog and will never fully relate to them. I love to find ways to relate to them, through natural motivators (food, play, affection, etc) and through changing the way I move/sound/act/etc, but I feel that there is only so much I can do as an awkward human being to communicate with my dogs. I know my timing will never be the same as a dog. I know my hands are no replacement for a dog's expertly inhibited mouth. I know I couldn't even begin to express the same emotions through subtle postures and vocalizations the way that dogs do. I suppose that is the biggest difference between us - I see the dog/human bond as very strong and very valid, but I do not feel that I am warranted to use physical force in an attempt to emulate dogs, when the consequences and affects of it could be devestating. That is my opinion. For me, I work with what I have, to make my life and my dog's lives the absolute best that they can be together.

To me, words mean little, action speaks louder than words. And as far as words go, I'm almost out of them, I'm very tired and have dogs to attend to.

I agree.

I came on this forum to help people with their dogs problems and to spread peace, not to debate training methods.

Nobody to this day has been able to tell me why negative people are so powerful, how you have managed to bring out so much negativeness in me is truly bewildering, but you have helped me learn about myself, and for that, I thank you.

Well... negativeness and all, you DID learn something about yourself, and that's why debates can be very fulfilling. I am all for spreading peace, but peace can hardly be achieved without being at peace enough with yourself to be able to openly express your feelings.

[bckrazy]

I mean, on a serious note, you're sitting there writing how much you disagree with Cesar, but in the end, who's listening? How do you feel when you write them? Happy? And what is it solving? And, on a less serious note, does Cesar even care!
Try and redirect some of that anger and resentment into a nice smile!

Who is listening?

Since you're new to this forum, I guess you don't completely understand it. I listen to others. Hopefully, others listen to me. This is a very tight knit forum and even though I don't post as often as I used to, I know most of these people very well. I have learned so, so, so much from the people here over several years it's unbelievable. And, not every thread that I have learned valuable information from has been 100% sunshine and rainbows. As long as there are no personal attacks toward members, or nasty language, I feel that debating is a wonderful way of expressing one's own opinion and learning more about others.

How do you feel when you write about how all of us are wasting our time and how we should warmly accept what we do not morally agree with? Obviously, you have at least a smidgeon of anger and resentment toward those of us who don't support the "Dog Whisperer", or you wouldn't be telling us to shut up and smile. When I express how I feel about a show that glorifies training techniques literally decades old and outdated, I feel hopeful that maybe some one will decide to look into more humane ways of training their dogs. I do so because I have a passion for dogs, and particularly for training dogs, and my mentors (some of the best behaviorists in the area http://www.4pawsu.com) have really opened my eyes about "dog psychology" in general. What they taught me helped me, and it "solved" a lot of the issues that I had with my dog because I was using negative punishment to supress behaviors rather than shape new ones. I hope that I open some other people's eyes, but if I don't, I have no ill will towards them because they are free to make their own personal choices. Does Cesar care? Probably not... he is ludicrously rich and I'm sure he hasn't a care in the world. He has yet to respond to the many, many world-reknown behaviorists who have called him out, so I'm sure he won't respond to little old me. I don't care, at all. I care more about the millions of people he influences every day on his glamorized TV show that makes him look like a hero.

If we all smile and move on, what do we learn?

Nice to see someone level-headed and friendly on here, it seems like we need more on this forum!

Ugh. On your 8th post you say this? I am so done.