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  1. #1
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    And there IS a dad...

    Like Cataholic said, she refused embryo reduction (nice phrase, huh?). I would think normally that not all eight would survive, so letting 'Nature take its course' or 'God decide' was the plan.


    http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...ion__Roundup__

    US octuplet mum already had six - refused embryo reduction (Roundup)
    Health News

    Jan 30, 2009, 14:48 GMT

    Los Angeles - The mother of octuplets born Monday in California already had six children under the age of seven, but declined to abort some of the eight foetuses, her mother said in a Los Angeles Times interview Friday.

    The mother has not been officially named. But grandmother Angela Suleman said the woman's refusal to undergo a so-called reduction was taken on moral grounds. 'What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed,' Suleman said. 'That is a very painful thing.'

    Suleman acknowledged that raising 14 children would be difficult, especially since the father is due to return to Iraq shortly where he serves as a military contractor.

    The mother, aged 33, was offered a selective abortion, Dr Harold Henry at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Centre said. The woman had consulted the doctors in her 12th week of pregnancy.

    News that the mother already had six young children before giving birth to the octuplets is likely to increase the controversy surrounding the use of fertility treatments, especially the implanting of multiple embryos which can lead to high risk pregnancies and health problems for the babies, who are usually born prematurely.

    'When we see something like this in the general fertility world, it gives us the heebie-jeebies,' Michael Tucker, a clinical embryologist in Atlanta and a leading researcher in infertility treatment, told the newspaper. Tucker added that in his opinion, 'if a medical practitioner had anything to do with it, there's some degree of inappropriate medical therapy there.'

    The six boys and two girls were delivered within five minutes of each other by Caesarean section Monday morning. The delivery surprised doctors who had been expecting 'only' seven babies.

    Two of the newborns who had initially been put on ventilators, were now breathing on their own.

    The mother is the second person ever to have delivered a set of living octuplets. The last octuplets known to have survived birth were born in Houston in 1998. One of the babies died one week later.

    On Wednesday, the mother could see her babies for the first time in their incubators at the intensive care ward. According to People magazine, she was not allowed to hold her babies yet, but watched them sleeping.

    The babies weighed in at between 880 grams and 1.47 kilograms each. All eight will spend about two months in an incubator, the hospital said, but the mother, who plans to breastfeed all her children, will be able to leave hospital in one week.
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda

  2. #2
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    Her other children's ages are 7, 6, 5, 3 and 2 year old twins. I doubt there was ever any question of her not being able to have a child.

    IMVHO this woman needed psychiatric care instead of embryo implantation.

  3. #3
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    Aint that the Damn Truth.. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    Her other children's ages are 7, 6, 5, 3 and 2 year old twins. I doubt there was ever any question of her not being able to have a child.

    IMVHO this woman needed psychiatric care instead of embryo implantation.

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  4. #4
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    Let's review,

    A single mom? 14 kids?

    HMMMM!

    I don't think that J and K + 8 live off of his salary alone. My dad raised six as a 'laborer' and my mom working part time, then full time when we were old enough.


    J+K+8 'live' off of their program, the kindness of others and corporate 'sponsors'.

    I happened by a spot when the kids had a birhday-even I have a curiosity about that trainwreck- and the mom was unpacking some shirts that were sent by a 'fan'. They also had some huge benefactors when they were first born.

    As for the vacations?

    Dizzyland and the producers of the program look for opportunities to showcase
    the family out in public. I watched the Dizzyland episode and had to laugh about the accomodations and all the 'perks'.

    Unless I win the lottery, I would never even dream of going and spending a week there, let alone with 8 kids. It's all donated thru the public relations offices of DL and the DISC Channel. The foot forward -or 20 feet - isthey want to portray is the Magic Kingdom is great place to take a litter of children for fun and games.

    "LooK! IF John and Kate do it! We can with our 3-1-4-5-7-? kids!

    Think of it on real terms.

    Hotel SUITE! for 5 days? Tickets to the park? 200 dollars for the adults, 240 for the kids, and the prices are guesstimates? Food and god knows what else!

    We have a Six Flags up the road- I was given a comp ticket when they were 10 bucks. NOw?

    That may be a burger, coke and fries after I pay 45 to get in.

    --------------------------


    Embryo Reduction?

    Every facet of the world has their 'non offensive terminology'.

    Some kids took grandma's car, got pulled over and ran from the cops.
    The 14 y.o. that was driving got the car up to 90 and crashed it. The cops sugar coat the crash with termiology, abbreviations and other PR drivel because they don't want to acknowledge that they chased a car full of kids to death- If I remember one was 11 and another was 15?

  5. #5
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    More news on this. It appears she does have a husband.

    Suleman said she was concerned about her daughter's homecoming because her husband, a contract worker, is due to return to Iraq.

    From the LA Times-
    The mother of a woman who gave birth on Monday to octuplets said her daughter already has six children at home and was undergoing fertility treatment.

    The Los Angeles Times reported on Thursday that Angela Suleman said her daughter had the embryos implanted last year, resulting in the eight births.

    "They all happened to take,"
    Suleman told the Times.
    According to an earlier report, she did not show up at Kaiser until she was close to 12 weeks along. So they did not implant the embryos.

    My question - what doctor in his/her right mind would treat a woman for infertility when she had undergone 5 pregnancies, resulting in 6 children over the previous 6 years?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    More news on this. It appears she does have a husband.

    Suleman said she was concerned about her daughter's homecoming because her husband, a contract worker, is due to return to Iraq.

    From the LA Times-


    According to an earlier report, she did not show up at Kaiser until she was close to 12 weeks along. So they did not implant the embryos.

    My question - what doctor in his/her right mind would treat a woman for infertility when she had undergone 5 pregnancies, resulting in 6 children over the previous 6 years?

    Grace,

    I worked for the "permanente" for a long time-they did what was good 'for the company' quite a few times. How's about the OB docs stalling a New Year's Eve birth to get the "first kid of the year" on their resume. I think that's what happened in Orange COunty this year.

    They have a PR machine next to none!


    http://www.myfoxla.com/myfox/pages/H...Y&pageId=1.1.1

    Enough said?

    The reports from the local news media was that she was single and living with mom.

    The more I hear, the more I question the whole idea, story and morals.

  7. #7
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    More bizarre by the minute . . . . .

    Just found this -

    From CBS News -

    CBS News has learned that the family of the octuplets born this week outside Los Angeles filed for bankruptcy and abandoned a home a little over a year-and-a-half ago.

    Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman says the mother is in her mid-thirties and lives with her parents.

    There's been no mention of the octuplets' father, Kauffman observes.

    The grandfather, she adds, is apparently going to head back to his native Iraq to earn money for the growing family. He told CBS News he's a former Iraqi military man.

    Kauffman reported Thursday, and the octuplets' maternal grandmother now confirms to the Los Angeles Times, that the babies' mother already had six young children.

    And a family acquaintance had told Kauffman that two of the six other kids are twins, and the six range in age from about two to about seven.

    The mother's name is still being kept under wraps.
    But her mother, Angela Suleman, also tells the newspaper her daughter conceived the octuplets through a fertility program.

    Suleman told the Times her daughter had embryos implanted and, "They all happened to take."

    On The Early Show Friday, the scientific director of an Atlanta-area fertility clinic blasted whichever clinic did the implantations, saying he's "stunned."

    Doctors at the hospital where the octuplets were born, Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center in Bellflower, Calif., some 17 miles southeast of L.A., say the patient came to them already three months pregnant.

    Asked at a news conference whether fertility assistance should be provided for a mother who already has multiple children, Dr. Harold Henry, part of the team that delivered the octuplets, said, "Kaiser has no policy on that, adding that doctors counseled the woman on her options.

    "The options," said Henry, "were to continue the pregnancy or to selectively abort. The patient chose to continue the pregnancy."

    Dr. Karen Maples, who also helped deliver the octuplets, read a statement from the mother saying, "My family and I are ecstatic about all of their arrivals."

    The woman and her children live in a neighborhood of small, one-story homes, Kauffman reports, all with two-to-three bedrooms at most. Soon, she pointed out, there will be 14 children and at least three adults living in one of the homes -- until the grandfather heads back to his native Iraq,

    Kauffman says unanswered questions include where the woman got the fertility treatments and how they were paid for.

    On The Early Show Friday, Michael Tucker, scientific director of Georgia Reproductive Specialists, says all these developments leave him "stunned. As the story's unfolded and it's gone from the potential use of just fertility drugs, or misuse thereof, to actual, apparently, IVF (in-vitro fertilization) with transfer of embryos, this is just remarkable to me that any practitioner in our field of reproductive medicine would undertake such a practice."

    Tucker, who has a doctorate in reproductive physiology, says it's "absolutely" possible the octuplets' mother got pregnant with them by taking fertility drugs on her own without the help of a clinic, "and that seemed the most plausible scenario, simply because the profession, we're policed by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, has focused so minutely on the fact that we need to reduce the number of embryos that we transfer. We really are all about seeking the one, the one embryo that's going to make the healthy, single-born baby.

    "And this kind of multiple plethora excess of babies is too much of a good thing. And it's rather a slap in the face of the whole profession, simply because it's going in the wrong direction.

    "And it's unfortunate, because the media pick up on this and seem to go, I think, Arthur Kaplan from UPenn (University of Pennsylvania) said the media tend to go goo-goo gaga over this and, in fact, it's really a bit of a medical disaster."

    "Had she walked into a fertility clinic and said, 'Listen, I've got other children, the oldest seven, the youngest two,' co-anchor Julie Chen asked Tucker, "is there any ethical responsibility on the clinic's part to say, 'I'm not going to treat you,' or, 'You know what? This is not a good idea?" '

    "Suffice to say," Tucker responded, "I've been in this business for 25 years now. And it's pretty much standard practice in all clinics to have some form of psychological evaluation of the patient. Also, their sociological circumstances. And I'm stunned, actually, that a clinic would proceed to treat a patient in this circumstance and then even to get to perhaps the transfer of embryos and ponder the transfer in, I believe, the lady's mid-30s, a 35-year-old -- she should be receiving two embryos, maximum, as a transfer into her uterus to have had eight transferred is somewhat -- is extremely irresponsible."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    My question - what doctor in his/her right mind would treat a woman for infertility when she had undergone 5 pregnancies, resulting in 6 children over the previous 6 years?
    My question too. I doubt it would be allowed here!

    A few centuries ago, it was normal to have up to approx. 6-10 children, but imagine if this goes on and on and on.... how long do you think our planet can cope?



    "I don't know which weapons will be used in the third World war, but in the fourth, it will be sticks and stones" --- Albert Einstein.


  9. #9
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    Here is the web site for Mama's handlers


  10. #10
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    I don't see anywhere to read others comments...that no doubt would be entertaining
    don't breed or buy while shelter dogs die....

    I have been frosted!

    Thanks Kfamr for the signature!


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    My question too. I doubt it would be allowed here!

    A few centuries ago, it was normal to have up to approx. 6-10 children, but imagine if this goes on and on and on.... how long do you think our planet can cope?
    Randi,

    Last century my mom had six......

    The 'moral' outrage is really funny out here. Instead of being angry at the stupid doctor, the masses are angry at the stupid woman.

    Yes, we all pay taxes and have to support this debacle in human form, but no one seems to mind that we all have to pay for the stupid people who the government has to help out because they bought houses they could not afford, invested money they had in stupid stocks. We have to hand out money to banks and other businesses because of their stupidity.

    It's far easier to unload on some dumb dingleberry because she has a face and is not a faceless giant of industry.


    Also, there are the arguements about the government regulating the 'birth' industry- Women complain about it all the time, but want their cake too.

    If the government stepped in an outlawed all in-vitro births you would have a real hell storm here in the U.S.

    It's o.k. for some women to have a set of twins or triplets-but by the same token, there are the people/couples so effing desperate to have their 'own' kids that they would have four or five embryos implanted to be guaranteed one child.

    It's the circus that AMerica is sometimes!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randi View Post
    My question too. I doubt it would be allowed here!

    A few centuries ago, it was normal to have up to approx. 6-10 children, but imagine if this goes on and on and on.... how long do you think our planet can cope?
    That's because it was rare for them all to survive to adulthood! And growing your own help was cheaper than hiring help to work the farm/fields ...
    I've Been Frosted

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