Aggressive Behavior in my female animal

[Pekemom]

Despite all of your intense opinion-pushing, I still retain my stance that the most important point on this post is helping to rectify my dog's (or my) behavior problems.

There are millions of causes out there that I could push, but I'm letting these forums be just what they are...forums for those seeking advise on their animals' behavior and not forums discussing philosophy or ideologies etc...

If your so stuck on this issue, create another topic for it or join a lobbying group somewhere. If I were breeding the animals for show, no one would care. Why is it ok to breed for show and not companionship? Double standard...it's ok to breed animals to prance them around and show the pretty tricks they can do, but not ok to breed them for people seeking a companion who brightens the mood of a home, helps the owner deal with stress, and offers more loyalty than almost anything one can experience. There are many ways the mutation rate can be decreased in animals and much research has been done looking at methods of creating more genetic variation (i.e. genetic selection) within breeds.

I'm done with your topic and am still concerned with mine. It is somewhat rude to dismiss someone's question in such a manner, but I'm not going to bother with being offended.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Another is that I know little about breeding when, in fact, I grew up on farm where we bred horses and dogs (Weims, Retrievers, Beagles, and Mini Collies). I know the risks and demands of breeding animals and I also do not believe animals should only be bred for show. The majority of people who wish to own pets cannot afford to show their animals, nor do they want to. I do not think companionship is a second rate reason to breed or own animals. I also do not think the lack of desire or money to show animals reflects that someone will not take care of their pets. I feel that I invest more time, money, and energy into caring for my animals than most who own for companionship. I also do my research into my breed's special needs and try to prevent in any way possible health problems that I can help them to avoid.


I will be another one to say please do not breed your dogs! There are waaaay too many animals in the shelters.

[Giselle]

Guys, let's just remember that the more you rely on argumentative/confrontational/offensive wording, the less you will be listened to. Talk about shooting one's self in the foot!

Pekemom, the difference between breeding for showing and breeding for companionship is that there are, essentially, millions of companion-quality dogs being euthanized yearly in our country alone. Even though the problem may be nearly non-existent in your area, every drop affects the entire bucket. The reason some of us (I say SOME because many people on here are pro-working dogs and not necessarily pro-conformation) can agree with breeding for conformation/show ring is because breeding to a standard attempts to preserve the breed. By keeping a uniform type and temperament via the show ring, breeders can help preserve the breed as it was originally intentioned. However, when one breeds for companionship, one can totally disregard the breed type and the breed morphs. That's why we have Pekes like this:

When the original Peke should really resemble a heavier coated version of Chik T'sun of Caversham:

Comparing these two images, you can see how quickly breed type is lost and how quickly that "Pekingese" no longer resembles a "Pekingese". So, that's my little spiel on it. You sound like a very knowledgeable, responsible, and openminded person, so I trust you will make a good decision

Back to the BEHAVIORAL issues...
If a verbal "NO" is too much for your male, simply use your female's name. The dogs can tell the difference. You can try, "AY *female's name*!!" That way, the verbal reprimand is clearly directed towards the female.

I HIGHLY recommend NILIF in the meantime. Really do implement it and be strict for now. NILIF is not just about earning privileges. It is also learning self-control. Dog has to "Wait" before coming in from the yard. Dog has to "Wait" before it can exit the front door. Dog has to give you eye contact before it can eat dinner. etc. etc. It's a comprehensive method. Use NILIF with everything all the time!

[Pekemom]

My issue is that breeding for show creates exactly the problem that Carrie was speaking of...low levels of genetic variation that cause animals within a breed to become more genetically similar thus creating more probability for mutation. Breeding for companionship is not as strict as breeding for show, so it seems to encourage more variation.

I do see how different the two pictures. I've actually noted myself that my two pekes, although thoroughly purebred, do not have the same length of hair as a traditional Peke. My younger one's hair has not grown out fully yet, though, but I'm fairly certain it will not have the volume of the traditional style. Like I said though, I searched the kennels for weeks looking for Pekes or Peke mixes around here to no avail. Hunting/working animals are much more prominent in the South. Here in the eastern part of my state, you don't find many small breeds other than Yorkies or Shih Tzus because most people want hunting companions or retrievers. In the west side where I grew up, there aren't even that many shelters for animals. Inevitably, breeds that are over 2,000 years old will develop some genetic problems (like the Shar Pei) over the course of years, so I understand the points made fully...I just wasn't a fan of the person before you seeming to assume I was ignorant to all of these issues.

My problem with calling Bianca's name is that I worry about associating her name in a negative manner may cause some problems...i.e. calling her name so she will come to me when she's outside playing may scare her instead of cause her to come to me. I've begun already reinstating the techniques in NILIF for my two. I'd used some of the ideas separately before when I read about some of them in training books. I like that NILIF incorporates all of the methods into one program to make it easier. She's in the rebelling stage right now, but she seems to be happy to learn the new commands we're trying to teach her. I hope that learning those commands will help her to respect her position in the household (not Alpha! ) She seems to have mixed feelings right now...doesn't know if she likes it yet or not.

[Pekemom]

I really only signed up for these forums to find ways to better care for my animals and not to debate ideologies. All I'm doing is saying that breeding is not my concern at the moment. IF I were to breed my animals it wouldn't be for another year or more anyways....One person can only do so much and I already have several causes in my life outside of making people knowledgeable about breeding animals. When 20% of our nation's poorest people are children (we currently have a 12.6% poverty rate...higher than most countries), I find I take a stronger stance of the needs of them over any stance on animal breeding. If animal rights (or whatever it falls into) is your stance, that is great (I'm serious...it really is great). I don't see myself as a bad pet owner for simply not making such things my priority in life.

[carrie]

Whatever the intended use of an animal, I make no distinction in my opinion.

The point I was making was that it is only when the show ring is the destination for any animal that breeding for proper function and health suffers. It is then up to the people in charge of that ring that make the decisions about what makes a good breed type. Function and temperament are often stated in breed standards without proper testing of either. The animal in the show ring often has only to show the correct expression, gait and not growl at the judge for these to be "proved". I'm sorry I was not clearer in my original post, I am agreeing with you on the point that eventual use of the dog should not compromise the care taken in breeding it. I was wondering about the wisdom of breeding these animals at all and with what goal for increasing the health of the Peke population in general without solid bloodlines. You are starting with a pretty messed up breed, gentically, to start with. That was part of your post, this is a forum, it interested me, so I put my opinion in the open.

You suggested that I join a "group" or become an activist....?

We have never met, this is our first interaction. Maybe we could just talk for a bit before we direct each other away from a brilliant source of information, opinion and diversity? I have obviously offended you and I am sorry for that. It was not my intention at all. I tend to say what I think and I expect the same from others...I do not expect to upset or offend.

[dogsonly95]

maybe your femdog is PMS-ing or she feels suspicious of your male dog.
has he done anything to you or her in the past that would make her feel this way?

[Giselle]

No, her name is her name. She knows that. The name is simply used to get their attention. It's not a command that can be conditioned to contain a negative or positive connotation. It's not like how you can deteriorate a "Come" command if you always call the dog back to you for punishment. I think the reason for this is due to the sheer number of times you probably say your dog's name in a day. The proportion of how often you say your dog's name when you're in a positive mood is probably very high versus how often you say her name when you're disciplining (which, in turn, is probably very low). Thus, the positive really outweighs the negative.

Many "rebellious"/teenage dogs don't take to NILIF at first, but you'll all appreciate it in the long run. It's akin to raising teenage children

[Giselle]

Ah, I see the problem.

Rather than stepping in and doling out constant punishment and corrections, recall Bianca. The recall takes care of both major issues: it stops Bianca from bullying Koie and it redirects her attention back to you (it gives her a positive, alternative behavior).

So, every time you see Bianca bullying Koie, immediately recall her. Reward her. Send her back out to do something else or redirect her with a toy, command, whatever. Initially, you'll be doing a lot of recalls, but that's perfectly normal and it's good. The more you recall and the more you reward her for a good recall, the stronger this behavior becomes and the less she will bully Koie. It becomes a transfer of value. The value of coming back to you becomes higher than the value of bullying Koie. As you can probably tell, you'll need a very strong recall to begin with, so start reinforcing your "Come's" now. Reward often and make it a game.

[Giselle]

By the way, Pekemom, I can see that you're putting a lot of thought into your pups and I really do commend you for keeping such an open mind. But the issue of pet overpopulation is just as bad, if not worse, down South/in the boonies. I was reading an article about pilots who fly pets from overpopulated areas into areas with less of the problem. Here's a quote:

The mission-of-mercy relocations are flown by general aviation pilots who have signed on with the recently formed Pilots N Paws, a Web-based message board where pilots can access information about animals in need.

Once the electronic connection is made, dogs plucked by rescuers from death row — mostly in the South where sterilization rates are low and pet overpopulation is rampant — are loaded onto small planes and flown one, two or six at a time to rescue groups and shelters that have available space.

Some food for thought

[bckrazy]

Hi Pekemom.

I am glad you joined PT for advice... Giselle, especially, is a freakin' dog training genius. I honestly feel that YOU need to step in more regarding the relationship between your dogs - YOU need to let Bianca know when it's time to back off, not wait around for your male dog to do it. He is obviously a more submissive dog, and not only does the bullying make him fearful of Bianca, he will also lose his trust in you as the benevolent leader and protector.

I would feed them in crates, seperated, at every meal if you cannot be right there supervising. DEFINITELY cut off free-feeding if that's what you do currently, because Bianca will end up pudgy and your boy will end up under-fed. For supervised meals, I would feed each from a bowl several feet from the other, and stand in between them. If Bianca goes for his food, quickly correct her with a "NO", block her from getting there, and direct her to her own bowl.

As far as the humping, my dogs hump, too. They hump when they're playing. It's just a dog behavior... it is for play, demonstrations of dominance, excitement, and even just as a way to expend energy. Let them do their thing, unless your male seems scared or agitated. Has your female ever hurt him? Does she start fights? I would definitely set boundaries with the female (and the male) - not allowing her on furniture, not allowing her to guard toys/food/beds, and practicing NILIF religiously should really help to calm her down.

I really only signed up for these forums to find ways to better care for my animals and not to debate ideologies. All I'm doing is saying that breeding is not my concern at the moment. IF I were to breed my animals it wouldn't be for another year or more anyways....One person can only do so much and I already have several causes in my life outside of making people knowledgeable about breeding animals. When 20% of our nation's poorest people are children (we currently have a 12.6% poverty rate...higher than most countries), I find I take a stronger stance of the needs of them over any stance on animal breeding. If animal rights (or whatever it falls into) is your stance, that is great (I'm serious...it really is great). I don't see myself as a bad pet owner for simply not making such things my priority in life.

The thing is... breeding practices DO concern "caring for animals". I'm glad you are waiting to breed, and not jumping into it. Dogs certaintly shouldn't be bred before they're 2+ years old and full grown, anyway. Plenty of people breed dogs the instant it's possible, when they're still pupies themselves, and it's great that you know better.

You are not a bad pet owner if you don't research responsible breeding practices. However, that would make you a bad dog breeder. Would you buy ANY kind of product, or service, from some one who had only a basic idea of what they were doing, who weren't dedicated to doing it reputably? To become a breeder is to become invested in breeding; it is your choice whether or not to do it responsibly, but you're invested regardless. Bringing lives into this world, social, intelligent, fairly long-lived (15+ years for Pekes) lives, really shouldn't be taken lightly. Pekingese in particular is a breed that is incredibly prone to health issues and birthing issues, in addition to being a breed that is rampant with BYBs who are breeding away from their original standard. Consider a $1000 c-section, an injured/dead Mother dog, etc, etc... just for the fun of breeding? All I advise you to do is THINK, long and hard, about the seriousness of breeding before you do it; research is a good thing, the more you know, the better. http://www.learntobreed.com is a very informative website.

I strongly encourage you to, when your dogs are 2+ years old and if you still plan on breeding, get their hips, elbows, patellas, and backs x-rayed, their hearts checked, and their eyes CERF'ed. To not do at least this is literally playing russian roulette with the lives of their unborn puppies. It is also important to consider the temperament of both of your dogs - an "aggressive", dominant, pushy female and a shy, flighty male? I don't know your dogs, you know them. Honestly consider, objectively, if they are good examples of their breed.

[Pekemom]

The thing is, I do step in when Bianca bullies my male animal. The problem is, she does it a LOT. He hates it, and will many times try to climb up to the highest parts of the furniture where she can't reach him (since she is still small). She is constantly trying to drag him into playing with her when he obviously doesn't want to...even if he has been playing with her and tries to stop the play, she doesn't let him until she is ready. We have stopped allowing her on furniture because it became an issue that she started getting on the coffee table and knocking drinks over. Koie generally waits to be asked onto the couch or recliners, but Bianca seems to think she owns them. We also stop her from "stealing" her toys if she becomes too persistent with the behavior-meaning, if she repeatedly takes things from him in a short period of time. I just hate getting up and interfering with it so much because he seems to think HE is the one doing something wrong. So, instead of her changing the dominant behavior he becomes even more submissive.

My fiance and I have been feeding Bianca on one side of the dog gate and the male on the other. We were concerned as well that she would begin overeating. We regulate the servings they get, so we didn't want her taking his since he's already such a picky eater.

The male used to be much more assertive before we got Bianca. With our Weim, he was much more dominant-never let her take his food, never let her push him around, and normally "won" playtime wrestles. He's always been laid back, but it's so strange that he quit being assertive when Bianca came into our home. We're doing our best though to regulate a bit better, and have read (and are implementing) NILIF. It seems like she's becoming very nervous though, so I hope eventually she gets more comfortable with it.



In response to BK, the reason why I wanted to wait in the first place is so my animals would be more mature. I've seen what can happen to females who are bred the instant the first come into heat, and I've seen that it can cause a whole litter of pups to die. I've done my research on Pekes, and what I've learned from it is that I need to do more. I would never breed my animals without being entirely prepared-whether it be financially or simply being knowledgeable. My point is, I'm still considering the option, but not pursuing. Neither me or my fiance have decided if we want to breed our animals. That is why I don't like being forced into a decision that I would like to decide for myself through research and serious consideration. I definitely see your viewpoint, and it is one that I will actively take into consideration when it is time to make the decision. On the other hand, we will probably decide within the next few months what we want for their future because there would be no reason postponing neutering if we decide not to.