I think Wallace has "rage syndrome"

[Giselle]

Most veterinarians won't prescribe mental health drugs without a set behavioral modification/training plan. Because of Ivy's issues, I know *many* people who've used mental health drugs (Clomicalm, Prozac, BuSpar) on their dogs. However, most of them use it sparingly - only enough to decrease their dog's arousal and anxiety levels to a workable level. At that point, they rely solely on behavioral modification and NOT the drug. Most of the people I know have stopped using the drugs, mostly because the behavioral modification they've been doing is so successful. If that's not the case, they use the drug only in extremely high-arousal situations like shows, trials, etc. Certainly, I do believe that there are dogs with abnormally low amounts of serotonin and abnormally high amounts of norepinephrine (more and more, I believe Ivy produces too much norepi). However, with the *right* kind of behavioral modification (and I'm really not talking about dominance-based stuff; I could care less about that stuff), you can work through most issues. To date, I've only met one dog who was so anxious and aroused that he could not be worked with without medication.

"Springer Rage Syndrome" is a very very very controversial topic and, according to the research I've read and the folks I've talked to, most people believe it should be dropped from behavioral jargon. My personal suggestion is this: If you yourself have limited experience with the issue and can't quite put your finger on what's ailing your dog, it's absolutely paramount that you find a professional to help you. Mental health follows the same protocol as physical health. The fact is - none of us are true professionals unless we've gone through vet/animal behavior programs. When something's wrong with our dog, we have to turn to the professionals. I wish you lots of luck! Just remember. "Problem" dogs = more fun

[IRescue452]

Thanks for the reply. I know rage syndrome has been all but dropped, which is why I have it in quotes. I have rage problems myself , I don't know why you'd drop a term that certainly works to describe these non-provoked aggression problems, but that's just me. I just don't know what further behavioral modifications I could try. He has no anxiety problems. The dog behaves fine, these bouts of rage are just so random its not during any certain behavior. He's not a stable dog either, definately not as stable as our other two, never has been. He's also very mopey, depressive, sleeps too much for an adult dog, which makes perfect sense to me if he had low seratonin levels, and no I don't think its a medical problem outside of his brain, he's been like this for far too long. I was just thinking a trial would be a good thing, but my mom has already told me she wouldn't be willing to pay to see if something helps him, she doesn't think anything is wrong with him and she certainly doesn't understand why anybody would give prozac or anything of the like to a dog. For what's its worth, I tried some herbal treats, though they were commercial and not real herbs, and they did nothing. How I wish I could see inside his brain and find out what's wrong with him.

[Giselle]

There's a LOT more to behavioral modification than just NILIF and DS/CC NILIF/DS/CC work for most dogs who don't have serious issues. However, for dogs with serious issues, there are more intensive methods. I suppose one broad general term for it all is "emotional modification". However, to address most aggression, you need to find out what the trigger is.

Truly authentic cases of "hair-trigger" dogs (dogs that aggress out of nowhere in reaction to seemingly nothing) are extremely rare. So, chances are 99.999% that Wallace does have triggers and that he does have signs leading up to his aggressive outbursts. The trigger can honestly be as simple as too much stress or anxiety or arousal. For example, I train Ivy in agility. She has very low stress levels. If I ask her to perform an obstacle more than 3 times because she's not "getting it", she'll take off and exhibit stress symptoms: zoomies, erratic sniffing, and, yes, even lunging and attacking. She is also intensely sensitive to the environment and has an odd case of leach reactivity. Now, guess how long it took me to identify her triggers? There is no one general term that I can use to describe Ivy's issues. Fear aggression doesn't work. Neither does "dominance" aggression nor stranger aggression nor resource aggression, etc. She just has reactivity issues, and that's how I explain it!

So, again, I suggest finding a certified behaviorist and getting a consult. An experienced professional will be able to scope out little signs that maybe you've missed, and s/he will be able to help you manage Wallace's issues more efficiently. I also discourage a "trial" plan for mental health drugs. From what I hear, many dogs don't react well to the drug initially, and that they need time to adjust to the medication. I'm worried that, if you intend to use the drugs only as a trial, you'll go through all the negative effects and won't have adequate time to scope out how well the drug is really working for Wallace. And remember, drugs are only tools to help you train. Drug or no drug - *training* is the most important aspect of behavioral mod.

[IRescue452]

I was hoping a trial would maybe help my mom to see the little changes that make him more of a normal dog and maybe she'd see the need to continue forth with some sort of plan for him. Maybe I'm just seeing too much of myself in the dog though. Even when he's waggin his tail and chasing a ball around and everybody else would see a happy carefree dog, I see an unhappy dog who is just occupying some time at the moment. I spend the most time with him though and I feel like I almost know him inside and out, except for this one tip of the iceberg. I guess though, she's never going to go for even trying something if she sees nothing wrong. Its not going to hurt him if he stays the way he is now and never does get more aggressive, but its certainly no quality of life in my eyes if nobody tries. He eats, he sleeps, he plays, he goes for walks, he gets into the garbage -just like any other dog, but at the end of the day he still looks like he's ready to walk off into a mist and never return.

I think he's bringing me down, I was at a high point lately. Depressed people should not have depressed dogs.

[Giselle]

If you're really uncertain about this, again, contact a behaviorist.

Understanding and training come before medication. And, I hate to say it, but maybe you are seeing him too much through your own personal, emotional bias. Maybe you can set up a relationship with a behaviorist and have them observe your dog over a period of time. If a second pair of eyes also sees something wrong with Wallace, then, by all means start behavioral mod. and drugs. If the behaviorist sees little wrong, then just try not to let your emotions color your judgment too much

Also, to narrow down Wallace's triggers, I highly suggest looking at this pictorial:
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/
This clearly demonstrates that dog body language is MUCH more than ears, teeth, and tail. Once you understand dog body language well, you can start applying it to Wallace and that will help you in determining at what point he starts to aggress. Then, write it in a journal and try to find some pattern (sometimes they're really esoteric, but they're there!).

[K9soul]

Has he ever had this thyroid checked? Thyroid problems can cause really weird behavioral issues at times, and when you mentioned he seems to sleep too much and display some depressive behaviors, I started wondering about it. If it hasn't been checked before, it may definitely be something worth ruling out.