Politics and religion.

[lizbud]

One of them being that it is OK to kill babies in the womb? How does he reconcile this with "his Christianity?" Well, I guess it's OK if one chooses to make up their own Christianity as they go along. I think he'd do well to do some reading in *the Book* he says influences his thinking. He didn't get that world view from that Book.

Oh gosh Pam, you & I would never agree on the pro choice/pro life
argument. I believe I am a Christian in good standing, but certainly
believe each and every woman should be able to have the right to
make this choice for themselves.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I am a Christian too. I too believe abortion is not the answer. But I also know that if a woman really wants an abortion, she will get one; no matter if it's legal or not. Sometimes going to places that are unsanitary and dangerous.

When you hear of babies being thrown in trash cans and killed by their mothers that's a big hint something is not right in our society. Is it better for a little one to never draw a breath or be born and tortured to death?

A woman who has an abortion has to live with what she has done her entire life and, I believe, for eternity.

My solution is education. I don't mean handing out condoms either. I'd go to the grade schools and get the girls that are 8 or 9 and start teaching them what happens during abortions. Teach them that their actions have coinsequences and show them what those may be.

I'd show films and show the process and what happens to the babies. I'd probably have the kids so scared they wouldn't want sex until menopause. I'd also teach them that if they should get pregnant, they have options like giving the baby up and who to talk to.

I'd also teach them that life is precious and sacred and should not be ended lightly.

You need to teach the girls early because they are getting into trouble early. I myself, could have been a mother at 10 years old. Back then though, we didn't even know what sex was at that age.

We have become a throw away society and have lost touch with feeling for others. Somehow we forget that what we do can hurt other people. (even unborn people)

[caseysmom]

I don't believe someone who is pro choice necessarily would choose to have an abortion or thinks it is okay, they just want the choice for women.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I ask this question -- not to start anything but because I want to understand.

How is it that abortion is against the Bible, but killing people after they are born isn't?

Like the death sentence.
Especially when you think how many have been on death row and then, through DNA or the like be found not to be responsible for the crime for which they were sentenced? It appears our (any for that matter) system of justice is not infallible. Is it okay to kill someone we think is guilty? What if we are wrong?

And war.
We don't like the government of a country. In the case of Iraq, how many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed -- women, children, babies, non-combatants of all kinds? That happens in war. Killing. Look at what is going on in Georgia.

If someone is pro-life, don't they have to be against war and the death sentence?

[caseysmom]

I ask this question -- not to start anything but because I want to understand.

How is it that abortion is against the Bible, but killing people after they are born isn't?

Like the death sentence.
Especially when you think how many have been on death row and then, through DNA or the like be found not to be responsible for the crime for which they were sentenced? It appears our (any for that matter) system of justice is not infallible. Is it okay to kill someone we think is guilty? What if we are wrong?

And war.
We don't like the government of a country. In the case of Iraq, how many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed -- women, children, babies, non-combatants of all kinds? That happens in war. Killing. Look at what is going on in Georgia.

If someone is pro-life, don't they have to be against war and the death sentence?

Good points!

[Pam]

Over the years here at PT this is a subject that has come up many times. While I don't want to get into a long series of posts here I do want to say a few things. I was raised in a family who brought me up in a church where I could learn about God. I have always had a hunger to learn about the things of God, and the church I attended when growing up was a teaching church where questions were encouraged. The study of the Bible is essential in order to see what God's mind is on a subject. He does not change even though our society may and that gives me comfort. There are a couple of verses that I want to quote here that might shed some light on what God's thoughts are on the pre-born person. Perhaps you don't believe the Bible - - well then you need read no further. There are others but I will stop with these two.

Jeremiah 1:5:

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;


Luke 1:42:

And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. (This was Elizabeth speaking upon meeting Mary who was pregnant with Jesus. She referred to Mary as the mother of her Lord, who was still in utero, but in Elizabeth's mind she was a mother already.)

(For those who are Catholic you may recall reciting the Hail Mary and the words "fruit of thy womb, Jesus.") The above verse is the source of that prayer. There was Someone very important in Mary's womb. Had she decided to have an abortion (after all, she was unmarried) we would have no Savior.

Yes, I have heard the argument about not bringing a baby into this world to live in poverty. I ask you which is the worse sin - living in poverty or not even getting the chance to be born? Ask a poor person if they would rather be dead. I doubt you will get any yes answers. We would not think of killing a poor living child to relieve their sufferings. What makes man think he has the right to kill an unborn child to save them from future sufferings. Interestingly, often when women are given the option of viewing their unborn child on ultrasound they then realize that they have a life inside of them and many change their minds as if the heartbeat and kicking were not in themselves reality enough of the fact.

Years ago I was reading an editorial in my local newspaper. It was written by a nurse and I will never forget it. She worked in labor/delivery at the hospital where my son was born and wrote about the messed up world we live in where in one room a mother gave birth to a pre-mature child and the doctors were moving heaven and earth to help that baby live. On the very same floor another baby, aborted at the same gestational age, was left to die. She had to leave nursing after that experience.

I am not interested in debating this issues here on this board as I will never see this any other way so nothing will be accomplished by multiple posts on my part.

Regarding war, all that I can say is that the Old Testament is full of wars. Yes God even chose sides - Israel! Jesus spoke of wars and rumors of wars in the end times. If you want to deepen your faith, begin reading Biblical prophecy. It reads like today's newspapers. God is real and His opinions matter. I don't have all of the answers to life but I try my best to learn God's view on a subject. He created me and some day I will return to Him.

[caseysmom]

Pam I totally respect your opinion even if mine differs I have always respected you, your one of my favorite people here. These are things that are close to your heart and nobody here would expect you to change or even have to defend them.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I quess I just don't feel I have the right to tell another woman what she has to do with her body. She has to live with whatever choice she makes. I'd sure try and make sure she chose life for her baby if I could though.

However, if someone really doesn't want a baby, they will find a way to get rid of it one way or another.

I keep thinking of the Susan Smith case. She drove her car into a lake with her two sweet boys strapped into the back seat and drowned them. Just because she thought they cramped her style with a new boy friend.

I can't imagine anything more horrible than the screams of those two babies. you know they were calling for her because "MOM" is always the one we trust to keep us safe. Which is a more horrible way to die? That way or before you are born? I just don't have any answers.