Are you kiddin me?

[sparks19]

so did I read this right? he shot her?

what's the big deal?

Honestly if he gave her a kill shot she woudln't have suffered at all. I don't understand the outrage.

now obviously I don't know the whole story with how or why this dog was suffering but if my dog was in severe pain I wouldn't subject them to the drive to the vets... I would shoot them and put them out of their misery right then and there. It wouldn't be easy for me but I don't think it's fair to make the dog suffer on the drive to the vets.

Honestly, When Teddy passed away... I wish that I hadn't made him endure that car ride and die on the way. I don't even know if he could feel the pain but I just know he wasn't really in there. His eyes were a blank stare but he was breathing. he was unresponsive and could not or would not even open his mouth to stop himself from biting his lip. if I had known then what I know now I would have shot him and put an end to his misery immediately.

How does he know she didn't suffer? Well if he knew how to use a gun and shot her in the right place you can pretty much see that death is instant. If you don't think he can be sure she didn't suffer from a kill shot how can you be sure that your pets don't suffer from the drugs injected to put them to sleep?

this may make me a "monster" but I just don't see the big deal. Like I said if she was in serious discomfort I think that forcing her to endure a bumpy car ride to the vet is more cruel.

don't get me wrong... I am not at all advocating shooting a healthy animal just to get rid of them but in cases of REAL discomfort I just don't see the problem. is it the gun that bothers you?

I am also not saying that it would not be difficult for me to shoot one of my animals. It would be very hard but it would also be very hard for me to make them endure the car ride to the vet to be put down.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

It said she was old and had arthritis... Not in dire and horrible circumstances... And about to die and that was the ONLY way to stop the pain...

I would not shoot my kid.. I would not shoot my pets.. I would not shoot anything, under any circumstances. IMO, it is inhumane.. ESP when vets are available.

It is just so sad.

[Alysser]

[QUOTE=kt_luvs_kitties;2040862]It said she was old and had arthritis... Not in dire and horrible circumstances... And about to die and that was the ONLY way to stop the pain...
QUOTE]

I kind of agree with sparks on this one too. Also, I obviously don't agree with killing a healthy animal but I don't think this dog was exactly healthy. Arthritis is a horrible, horrible disease. I had to put my baby to sleep thanks to this disease and it's horrible to watch an animal suffer through the pain of arthritis then getting shot and kill instantly. If you think about it before they had putting a dog to sleep, they always did this. The dog was probably suffering a great deal, although there are options to treat this disease or help simmer it down these people "were broke" and would not have been able to afford it. I doubt they would have tried but just putting my two cents in.

[Taz_Zoee]

I've always thought this was just a strange thing......we can end an animals suffering by having them PTS. But we cannot do this with humans, because it's considered murder. Even though a human could actually TELL us they don't want to live any longer.
When my grandpa was in the hospital during his last days he was in so much pain. I will NEVER forget the look in his eyes. He had piercing blue eyes and it felt like he was begging me to help him end the misery he was in. He had to suffer until that day he was finally at peace.

Sorry, this is a little off topic, but it's what came to mind.

[sparks19]

I kind of agree with sparks on this one too. Also, I obviously don't agree with killing a healthy animal but I don't think this dog was exactly healthy. Arthritis is a horrible, horrible disease. I had to put my baby to sleep thanks to this disease and it's horrible to watch an animal suffer through the pain of arthritis then getting shot and kill instantly. If you think about it before they had putting a dog to sleep, they always did this. The dog was probably suffering a great deal, although there are options to treat this disease or help simmer it down these people "were broke" and would not have been able to afford it. I doubt they would have tried but just putting my two cents in.

yeah I just don't see it as anymore inhumane than PTS to sleep with drugs.

No I wouldn't shoot my child but I also wouldn't have her euthanized either so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

this is probably way off topic and a wierd comparison but one time a hummingbird flew into the window and I ran outside to see if it was OK. it was laying on the ground still alive but twitching around. I touched it's tushy and it ended up getting up and flying away... it was only stunned. but if it were unable to fly away I would have broken it's neck and put it out of it's misery. I have done it with one of my hamsters that was dying slowly. it's not a pleasant thing to do and I don't enjoy breaking necks but immediate death is the most humane thing I could have done. IMO

[lizbud]

this is probably way off topic and a wierd comparison but one time a hummingbird flew into the window and I ran outside to see if it was OK. it was laying on the ground still alive but twitching around. I touched it's tushy and it ended up getting up and flying away... it was only stunned. but if it were unable to fly away I would have broken it's neck and put it out of it's misery. I have done it with one of my hamsters that was dying slowly. it's not a pleasant thing to do and I don't enjoy breaking necks but immediate death is the most humane thing I could have done. IMO

I understand your opinion but, I would never assume the role of killing
any animal by my own hand. I just could never do it,ever.

As for shooting a old,arthritic dog companion, I could never bear to see
the dog's brains blown out before my eyes. It would haunt me forever.
This is just my opinion.

[Miss Z]

so did I read this right? he shot her?

what's the big deal?

Honestly if he gave her a kill shot she woudln't have suffered at all. I don't understand the outrage.

now obviously I don't know the whole story with how or why this dog was suffering but if my dog was in severe pain I wouldn't subject them to the drive to the vets... I would shoot them and put them out of their misery right then and there. It wouldn't be easy for me but I don't think it's fair to make the dog suffer on the drive to the vets.

Honestly, When Teddy passed away... I wish that I hadn't made him endure that car ride and die on the way. I don't even know if he could feel the pain but I just know he wasn't really in there. His eyes were a blank stare but he was breathing. he was unresponsive and could not or would not even open his mouth to stop himself from biting his lip. if I had known then what I know now I would have shot him and put an end to his misery immediately.

How does he know she didn't suffer? Well if he knew how to use a gun and shot her in the right place you can pretty much see that death is instant. If you don't think he can be sure she didn't suffer from a kill shot how can you be sure that your pets don't suffer from the drugs injected to put them to sleep?

this may make me a "monster" but I just don't see the big deal. Like I said if she was in serious discomfort I think that forcing her to endure a bumpy car ride to the vet is more cruel.

don't get me wrong... I am not at all advocating shooting a healthy animal just to get rid of them but in cases of REAL discomfort I just don't see the problem. is it the gun that bothers you?

I am also not saying that it would not be difficult for me to shoot one of my animals. It would be very hard but it would also be very hard for me to make them endure the car ride to the vet to be put down.

I agree with you in a way. Shooting, when done correctly, can be humane. Old and sick horses are, more often than not, shot instead of put to sleep. Deer fatally wounded in car accidents are often shot to prevent them struggling off somewhere remote and dying in agony. Why, because this is a dog, is it different?

When I did my work experience at a veterinary practice, one of the vets there got her gun license. Before then, I'd never really thought I might have to shoot things when I become a vet, and for a while I was a bit uncomfortable with it. Once it was explained more to me about how to use the gun properly, I now know I would have no more of a problem shooting a dying animal than putting it to sleep.

On the other hand, I can see why the dogster page is a cause for concern. We'll never know whether the dog actually was suffering and had a poor quality of life or whether the owner just decided the dog wasn't worth keeping anymore because it was older and slower. We'll never know if the dog was shot in a humane manner. It's very sad, yes, but either way, we can't do much about it now.

RIP pup.

[lizbud]

I don't think it's fair to compare a wild deer, or even a horse in the same
way one treats a dog in this same circumstance.

A wild deer is wild & couldn't be transported easily to be put down.
A horse out on the range,or far from a Vets office can be treated or
euthanized by injection, if necessary.
A pet dog can be transported to a Vet or 24hr hospital, and put to sleep
with no pain & no trauma to the animal or the human. There are also pills
to help older,arthritic dogs & the animals owner would have plenty of time
to judge the health & welfare of his/her dog and plan accordingly.

To take an animal "out-back" & shoot it yourself is bizzare. Maybe people
did this 60 years ago, but that was then, & this is 2008.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

We are a modern society. We can take a mouse and have it humanly PTS.

Also, what makes people think that they are experts, a vet, or the like?

How do you know that animal can't be saved?

My kitty Stash, when I found him, was hit by a car and left on the side of the road.

By most people reasoning it seems, and ABSOLUTELY NO VET TRAINING, would have said to put him out of his misery, or shoot him.

I did not, and now 5 years later I have the best kitty one could want, and the love of my life

Point: If you are not a vet, you don't know if a life can be saved or not.

[Alysser]

Point: If you are not a vet, you don't know if a life can be saved or not.

While I agree with this statement somewhat, I also disagree with it. Sometimes, an animals life can be saved, but at what cost. More pain for the animal? Major surgery? I for one, would never put an old dog through major surgery and cause it more pain then it already has, I mean, in the long run the dog is old already and older animals have a greater chance of develeoping more problems because of the surgery and their age alone. I don't think I'd put an older animal through major surgery unless there was a very great chance of him/her surviving.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Alysser, while I do agree with you in a way, I do believe it is best to talk to a licensed vet before making any major decisions... And not to drag it out back and kill it. That is what I was trying to say






Once a vet says there is no chance, then I take them to another vet, just to be sure. And still I have a had time accepting it, because no matter what, I believe God makes the final decision, and I always wonder if PTS is what I should have done...

[sparks19]

While I agree with this statement somewhat, I also disagree with it. Sometimes, an animals life can be saved, but at what cost. More pain for the animal? Major surgery? I for one, would never put an old dog through major surgery and cause it more pain then it already has, I mean, in the long run the dog is old already and older animals have a greater chance of develeoping more problems because of the surgery and their age alone. I don't think I'd put an older animal through major surgery unless there was a very great chance of him/her surviving.

Agreed.

I dragged poor Teddy into a man's truck and he suffered the drive to the vet and died just before we got there.

It tears me up inside to think that he suffered during that drive when ultimately my LOVING hand could have put him out of his misery immediately.

he was bleeding from his ears... His back was VISIBLY broken. I don't have to be a VET to see that. To see the blank stare in his eyes. to see that he was even unable to open his mouth to stop him from biting his lip to the point of bleeding.

while the dogs condition as described in the dogster page could have been to the point of extreme pain or not that bad at all... I will never say that it is completely wrong to shoot your dog to immediately end their discomfort.

how do you REALLY know that the injection causes them no pain? Cause the vet tells you? how do they REALLY know?

No visible signs? Teddy didn't show SIGNS of pain other than his bleeding and obviously broken back. I didn't want to give up on him but deep down I knew that even if they said they could do surgery it would be no life for him. he was so active and IF IF they could have SAVED him ... what would the cost be? A life of pain? not able to do the things he loved like jump around and chase the water hose? that's not a life he would have wanted to live. it would have been torture to make him endure that recovery if he hadn't died on the way. It would have been SELFISH... PURELY SELFISH. I woudln't have been keeping him alive for HIM... i would have been keeping him alive for MY selfish want to keep him by my side.

I don't have to be a vet to see how critical his condition was. there is NO WAY that if the vet had told me there was nothing he could do that I would drag his poor broken body to another vet only to prolong his suffering.

Sometimes I think we do these things for OUR selfish reasons rather than what we know in our HEARTS would be best for the suffering being begging at our feet

I took him to the vet for the selfish hope that PERHAPS he could be saved even though I knew deep down it would be SO hard on him. My heart weeps for him everyday. the vision of him in that truck suffering haunts me. the moment he took his last breath I even tried to give him CPR to revive him. I was selfish and desperate. I was unable to save him and looking back I don't know if I could look at myself if I made him go through surgery and recovery just so I could have a little more time with him

Not to mention... Not all people are minutes away from a vets office. If they lived out in the country they could have been over a half hour away from a vets office. Looking back I wish that I could have ended his misery immediately rather than try to prolong his suffering for my own selfish reasons.

I am not a vet but I think there is a point where you just KNOW that the animal you love just doesn't have it in him anymore to go on. that there comes a point when we must end their suffering because it is just to much for their poor bodies to handle.


So... why is it more cruel to shoot your dog than to drag them to the vet and have them PTS if you don't REALLY know how much pain they are really in? Even vets don't know 100%. Life is fragile and vets do their best to restore life but even they make mistakes and operate or treat a dog that later dies from their suffering. Sorry... being a vet doesn't give you 100% accuracy on LIFE.

I think I would rather PTS and wonder for the rest of my life rather than avoid it all together and let my BEST FRIEND suffer until they just can't take it anymore and die and then regret that I allowed them to suffer when they trusted me with their life.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

I guess that is where we differ... I would rather take that drive...

And even if I was in severe pain, I would NOT want to be shot. Please let me die naturally, rather than put a bullet through my brain. Sorry to be so frank, but it is what it is...


AND- there is no guarantee that the shot is not painful, but if the animal is sedated first, which they are, then I can not see HOW it could hurt. And if it did, they would not know it....I mean, who is to say we can't feel pain AFTER death? I know that signals stop going to our brain, But prove it? We can't. Only God knows that.

[Miss Z]

I don't think it's fair to compare a wild deer, or even a horse in the same
way one treats a dog in this same circumstance.

A wild deer is wild & couldn't be transported easily to be put down.
A horse out on the range,or far from a Vets office can be treated or
euthanized by injection, if necessary.
A pet dog can be transported to a Vet or 24hr hospital, and put to sleep
with no pain & no trauma to the animal or the human. There are also pills
to help older,arthritic dogs & the animals owner would have plenty of time
to judge the health & welfare of his/her dog and plan accordingly.

To take an animal "out-back" & shoot it yourself is bizzare. Maybe people
did this 60 years ago, but that was then, & this is 2008.

Whilst I can understand why this is your opinion, I'm still not convinced about why a dog is different to any other animal. To me, a life is a life, whether it's that of a dog, cat, horse, human, parrot, bumble-bee, whatever. I don't think that some methods of death are more acceptable for one species than the other.

I think if it really was necessary a wild animal could be transported to a vet's clinic to be euthanised. But it causes far less stress to the animal to shoot it there and then than prolong its suffering for the same outcome.

I have seen a horse euthanised. It's not really as simple as doing so with a cat or dog. A horse is a large, powerful animal and needs a big shot. The poor animal was cast and scared out of its mind - a horse's instinct is to get up and run when it's afraid. It took a while for the drugs to take effect, time in which the poor creature was screaming and paddling the air. It was a harrowing experience. I wish they'd have shot him instead.

And whilst I agree that treatment is the option we pet lovers most like to choose, part of me does understand the reason why perhaps the animal should be humanely killed before it has to face a life of steadily progressive pain and nasty treatment. As pet owners will know, we all have a point with our ailing pets when we say, right, enough is enough. Rest assured had that pet been in the care of someone else, there'd be people who would have given up on it months back, and those that would still want to carry on pumping the animal with treatments. It's just a question of how much pain you can take in. Some people can't hack it.