Rude dog/dog behavior

[Blackrose]

Chloe is 14, almost 15 months old. She is a Collie/Australian Shepherd mix. so yes, rambunctious, hyper, reactive, and adolescent all fit her quite well!
Here is a picture of her, just to show her off:


Where can I find some "bomb proof" dogs? A large problem with me during Chloe's early puppy days was trying to find dogs that had good manners themselves. As a reslut, I don't think she's ever been around another dog that actually was a perfect gentleman.
Blackie and Rose are good around her, but I don't trust them to correct her. I'm afraid that Rose will over correct due to her fearfulness (especially since Chloe resembles the breed that is the reason for Rose's hesitancy towards strange dogs), and I'm also afraid that Blackie will over correct due to his "dog aggression".

It wouldn't surprise me as Chloe having "barrier" frustration. That was a thought that crossed my mind, as she also will bark at/divebomb Blackie and Rose when they walk by her kennel. I can get her to stop by saying her name, but that is another thing that drives me up the wall.

We do have a local kennel club that uses positive reinforcment/clicker training. They offer all kinds of obedience and agility classes (including a CGC class), and I've entertained the idea of entering Chloe into a basic obedience class for a while.

I think I'm going to contact the trainer in charge of the Basic obedience class and ask her about it.

[Giselle]

Ah, Chloe sounds exactly like an Ivy.

Don't worry. Reactivity is actually very common, especially in high energy breeds. It's sort of "the dog who wanted to love too much".

You can join obedience classes, but I guarantee you they won't help as much than if you went directly to a behaviorist who is VERY experienced in leash reactivity (and preferably has dealt with these problems in his/her own dogs).

I highly recommend Leslie McDevitt's book Control Unleashed. You may want to read this before you set out on a search for a behaviorist. Many trainers/behaviorist like to command for 100% focus in the presence of other dogs, but, if you read CU, you will realize that that can even exacerbate the frustration and reactivity. She suggests using the game Look at That! which is explained in the book. I've experienced the vast difference between the two methods of dealing with reactivity, and I have to pledge my allegiance to CU. I actually have a couple videos of various dogs demonstrating LAT. If interested, just PM me! Leslie also addresses dogs who go bonkers with frustration even in crates and kennels and how to rehab that.

ETA: Re: bombproof dogs. Do you know anybody who has a greyhound? Greys are notorious for their gentle disposition. Most greys are 'bombproof' in the sense that they usually are not reactive. Or do you know anybody who has a very submissive/completely non-aggressive dog? Basically, any non-reactive, not-too-hyper dog would do. You just need them as a trigger.

[shepgirl]

The mounting is definitely a dominance thing with Chloe. But I sense she is also feeling safe by being on leash with you around for protection...sounds like a bravado thing to me. If she's off leash when you meet another dog, watch till you see her tryng to mount and turn in the opposite direction and walk away, she'll forget the mounting and come running...but don't turn around to peek, walk away fast. At home I would leave the room when she starts this and let the other dogs show her some manners. I think the fact that you always intervene makes her feel safe so leave the room and go into another room and shut the door...she'll soon be looking for you. We see dogs like that at training classes all the time, so brave when the owner is on the other end of the leash but running away if off leash and owner walking away.

[Karen]

Where can I find some "bomb proof" dogs? A large problem with me during Chloe's early puppy days was trying to find dogs that had good manners themselves. As a reslut, I don't think she's ever been around another dog that actually was a perfect gentleman.

I'd definitely contact the trainer, not only to sign up for that class, but the trainer might know some good, well-behaved, "bomb-proof" dogs as well. The class will likely help a lot, after all, it not only will help train Chloe, but teach you as well!

And I just have to say Chloe's a beauty!

[Blackrose]

I contacted the trainer and she said that in her opinion, Chloe wouldn't do well in the class because she will be on leash the entire time and she "doesn't want me to become frustrated". IMO, If I've put up with this ever since I got Chloe, I don't think I'm going be blowing my top off because she's still growling at other dogs. Of course, I also told her about Chloe's resource guarding over extremely high value objects (bones) and how she sometimes doesn't like to be physically restrained, but oh well. Maybe I should have kept that to myself as I'm working on both of them and we are making progress.

She recomended that I take her to Purdue's Behavior Clinic (I live maybe 30 mins away from Purdue, if that). In order to get in to the clinic you need to have a vet's "letter of recomendation" (LOL I don't know what else to call it) and then the consulation is 2 hours and is $220 bucks. The follow up visit is $80. I'd really not like to spend $300 on a behaviorist, espeically if I have a chance of working out her issues at my own home.
Besides that, I don't want to have to get Chloe tested for any medical reasons behind her issues when I know full well it isn't medical. When she tried to bite my sister and I a day after she pulled a muscle in her neck, now that was medical. But I don't think growling at other dogs while onleash is cause for a full blood panel to be done.

I do know some people with Greyhounds, but they aren't very Greyhound like. LOL They are both retired racers, but one thinks it is a watchdog and the other is very skittish. For intial training, I might use Blackie (as he is good with Chloe, for the most part) and then progress to Rose, as that is who Chloe focuses most of her "rude" behavior towards. Then we'll move towards some neighborhood dogs that Chloe knows, and lastly strange dogs that she doesn't know.

[Giselle]

Honestly, I don't think group classes are ideal for reactive dogs who haven't completely learned coping skills. I had to make a very difficult decision, but I recently pulled Ivy out of our group agility class that she has been attending for almost a year. A new dog came into the class and Ivy and the other dog (who is a spook) are causing each other a terrible amount of distress. As such, Ivy and I are now doing private lessons. This way, I can focus ONLY on agility to increase her skills and then spend the rest of the week working ONLY on reactivity. Although it hurts my self-esteem, it's ultimately better for Ivy.

So I returned your PM There's a lot of into continuously flowing through my brain, so please PM me back with any questions you may have. I probably forgot to include a lot of vital information in my PM, so, please, ask

You also don't necessarily need bombproof dogs. For now, you just need strange dogs as triggers. You can go to a local dog park for that. The bombproof dogs are really only important if you want to teach Chloe how to actually greet others nose-to-nose.

[Blackrose]

So while I'm pretty sure Chloe is leash reactive towards other dogs, I'm still not intirely sure she is good with them off leash. (Thus, not all of her problems would be leash reactivity.)

Yesterday our neighbor's dog got loose and came running into the yard. Chloe was outside on her chain so I went running outside to make sure there wasn't going to be a fight. Bobbie (a cattle dog mix) and Chloe sniffed noses without any problem and then Bobbie went into a play bow and took off, so I just stood outside and watched them for a while.

Bobbie was being a very good girl - submissive, not snappy at all, etc. Chloe, however, was being a butt. I couldn't figure out if Chloe was actually having fun playing or if she was very irrated and was borderlining aggression. Her and Bobbie where jumping all over each other, tackling each other, and having a normal play session, I don't think I ever saw Chloe go into a playbow and she was almost constantly growling (but dogs growl in play) and she was nipping hard at Bobbie's sides (almost like snaps). The corners of her mouth weren't relaxed either, but pushed up. When they would take breaks Chloe was okay and didn't try to push the playing or go after Bobbie, which made me think she wasn't being aggressive, but I don't know.

This is really what I'm confused about - I don't know if she is being aggressive (if the dog does something wrong if she'll tip over the edge and attack), or if that is just her play style. Blackie and Rose used to rough house all the time and they'd be growling and flashing teeth, but I always felt comfortable with it.

Bobbie was very enthusiastic and kept coming back for more, but she also does that with my two older dogs when they are growling at her, so that didn't mean much.

I'm going to see if I can't get them to bring Bobbie down here again to play with Chloe, and I'll try to get a video of it for you guys....but this has me royally confused.

This isn't a video of Chloe, but a video of some Huskies that I found on YouTube. However, the nippy/snappy/lungy thing that the dogs are doing to that GSD (Hans?) is very similar to what Chloe does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfns...eature=related

[Giselle]

In my experience, there is a very clear distinction between play and aggression. When a dog is in aggression mode, it is out to damage and it won't stop until 1) the dogs are somehow pulled apart from each other or 2) damage has been done. When an aggressive dog has hit that mental stage, there is no turning back until there is a forced, physical separation between the two dogs. Play CAN be agitated and it CAN turn into a scuffle. But if both dogs are voluntarily stopping and starting interactions, then they are not being aggressive.

The thing about leash reactive dogs is that they can learn to interact nicely with dogs they are familiar with. When taught coping skills, leash reactive dogs can be calmed down to a level so that they can stay within very short distances of other dogs. Individual dogs have individual thresholds, and it is really difficult to assess exactly how far you can initially push your dog.

A major trigger in leash reactive dogs is calmness. Leash reactive dogs will often NOT react, even when they're on lead, if they're in a calm state of mind. It's almost beyond simple, but when a reactive dog is calm, it is not above threshold and not reacting. Many times, Ivy confused me in the beginning because she would react some days and she wouldn't react other days. I quickly realized that, in the face of environmental stressors (i.e. me asking for behaviors, new places, new people, etc.), she would react. In situations where she was either physically or mentally exhausted, she would not react because she was, essentially, calm and tired. I think if Chloe were in her own familiar territory and Bobbie is a familiar friend, Chloe could actually be very calm and not prone to react. Just how I think things are playing in Chloe's head She sounds extremely similar to Ivy.

ETA: Also, do you think Chloe isn't making a clear distinction between on leash/off leash with the chain? I feel like she doesn't feel like she's being restricted on the chain, which is affecting her behavior (for the better, I suppose).