Quote Originally Posted by shepgirl View Post
SemivaLady --- I love your Anatolians, we have a few around here as well, but they aren't that well known. Supposedly make good guard dogs for livestock.
Thanks, and yes that is their heritage. They are very independent and tend not to transfer authority very well to other members of the same family sometimes. They are sometimes inclined to treat a person like a clod of dirt if they have other priorities. Selective deafness and all of that. So it takes a very specialized approach to modify their training and find ways to motivate them for different needs.

Above, a couple pups with sheep.

Many Anatolian breeders have taken dogs back from 'pet dog trainers' who gave up on their Anatolians. Some had truly met their match in these dogs. Most pet trainers also do not compete in formal obedience as the degree of control & precision in sport training is just not 'their thing'. This is not to say that Anatolians are sport dogs but this is an example of why it is that some trainers are not as well balanced in their theory work as they think they are. It does seem that 'pet dog trainers' are very common now and some seem to be very opinionated. That's fine by me. We are all entitled to an opinion.

I have had problems however when the prospective owners of Anatolians report back to me saying that a trainer in their area will not accept Anatolians in their classes (I've seen the similar frustrations in reports on Caucasion Ovcharka and on Kuvasz, among other flock guardian breeds). This is not a general rule, but it does happen that some flock guardian breeds are refused outright before even being seen. This is hopefully changing. It's probably more common for owners of bull breeds to automatically be refused attendance in some training classes.

Anyway, about the training of dogs....you really don't need anything but love and understanding to train a dog. I've watched some people train their dogs with no collar otr leash. This is where you can apply the old adage "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".
There is a danger in this in assuming all dogs and breeds of dogs are the same. This is why some of the Anatolians I know had to go back to their breeders. The expectations of the trainers were not prepared. Breeders did warn, this is a very independent dog, blah blah, but sometimes trainers are a bit overconfident. The breeder is hopeful and places the dog with this perfect sounding home, and before the dog is 18 months (in one case, only four months of age) the dog is back with the breeder. It is generally true that both the handler and the dog need to find a level of communication that is successful and I think sometimes Anatolians really drive that point home where it will not soon be forgotten. For some individuals the path is a bit easier and they wonder, are all Anatolians like this? -- their next one usually shows them the ropes.

But this is why a SD facility would never use a prong to train a dog for service work. They are amazing the way they train dogs. If a dog comes along that needs a prong or harsh training methods he is simply ruled out of the program
As I wrote in a previous post, this is an option for trainers who can choose the types of dogs they will train.

This is not a real world situation for trainers who MUST find ways to establish communication, trust and respect between a human and a canine student.

There is no cop out for them.

The ordinairy trainer has more choice in what they wish to use to train their dogs.
Depending on the person, their skills and motivation may or may not allow them to cop out on different situations.

Without prongs some owners would have to give their dogs up, so prongs do have their place in training. A 65 yr old lady would never have the strength to train a boistrous boxer, or a strong willed large dog, but with a prong it gives her the advantage she needs. a time and place for everything.
I agree. I don't think we disagree on anything previously written. Just that we have a different way of approaching it. I like having multiple choice in training methods.

Since I am a breeder of a potentially difficult and enormous breed, I often have to keep the human, canine and sometimes livestock behavior elements in mind when making a match or creating a solution. I usually advise people not to fight fire with fire when it comes to Anatolians, but there are times when strong adversives are necessary. The Anatolian has a very high pain threshold and electrified fencing may not hold them in if they see a predator such as a bear, lion or cheetah on the other side of a fence. Likewise in training with a human, sometimes a firm voice or a look (even a raspberry) can put them off (make them obey), other times you have to yank them off their feet. Their drive and gameness is legendary in Turkey.