Pics to Share

[IRescue452]

your dogs are very beautiful.

Other differences between the sheltie and collies are the skull and tail. Collies have a less defined stop. Shelties have a definate stop and their top skull must parallel their muzzle. Shelties cannot have a twist at the end of the tail as do collies. Shelties tails must also end at the hocks, collies can go further.

[Spiritwind]

Shelteez.. LOL I'm sure your dogs would just love to have Andy added to their pack if you really want to LOL


IRescue452 has far as the other differences between Collies and Shelties... Shelties do have more stop.. Collies stops are less defined, however Collies are supposed to have a slight stop.. but Collies head plains (backskull and muzzle) should also be parallel to eachother just like shelties... its not supposed to be a straight line from backskull to muzzle (there should be a slight "break" where the stop is) though I know a lot of dogs are more like that.

Collies tails are supposed to go to atleast to top of the hock joint... I know shelties tails are supposed to reach at least to the hock joint, however I know A LOT of shelties with shorter tails.. I've seen some at shows where the tail only goes half way to the hock (and I know several sheltie breeders and have seen this in some of their dogs)... the other people that live on the property (professional handlers) have a sheltie litter right now, where one of the pups was born with such a short tail it looks like it was docked... its also got a cork screw twist/kink to the tail... but if it was straight it still wouldn't be very long.. but you are right.. collie tails tend to have a little twist at the end where shelties do not, or are not supposed to... both dogs should carry the tail straight out from their body when moving (collies with the little twist).. and not up over their back... like i see in a lot of Collies at shows..

[Flatcoatluver]

Wow! Your dogs are so stunning! I hope someday to own a rough or smooth. I tend to worry about bloat though. I just can't get over how stunning Andy is!!


Also to add, I can't tell you how many times I have been asked if Sage was a mini Collie.

[Spiritwind]

Wow! Your dogs are so stunning! I hope someday to own a rough or smooth. I tend to worry about bloat though. I just can't get over how stunning Andy is!!.

Thanks Flatcoatluver...
As far as bloat goes, you just gotta make sure you do your research and find a breeder who is honest about whether or not they have had bloat in their lines. I know no one can say for sure what causes bloat, and I am sure the cause is not 100% genetic, there are other factors and causes, however I know it runs in certain lines and you have just got to find a breeder who will be honest about it.. and their are pleanty of breeders out there that will try to hide it, or make up stupid excuses for why it happens in their lines.

If it happens onces or twice and there is no history of close relatives bloating in the predigree.. ok that might be a fluke.. however if you can look at a 5 generation pedigree and name off several dogs in each generation that bloated or produced offspring that later bloated then I'm sorry...you have a problem, whether that breeder wants to admit it or not... I know of a very popular stud dog back in the early 80's that bloated 3 times before it finally killed him...

If it happens in an older dog... 7-8-9 yrs or old.. It can be caused by other things... abdominal masses or other tumors etc.. I friend of mine had her 9yr old lab bloat last year because of a tumor in the abdomen... when it happens in young and otherwise healthy dogs 2-3-4-5 yr old dogs... it is MY personal opinion its very likely genetic... unless you can find other reasons for it.

I have had Collies for just over 13yrs now, and I have had 2 Collies bloat in that time. It was actually father and son who bloated (hmm... kinda odd if other breeders wanna say its not partly genetic??? and there were several other dogs back in their pedigree who bloated) The son bloated first at ONLY 7 months old... I caught it early, he had the surgery to tack his stomach, and was saved.. and later after he recovered from that, was neutered and placed in a pet home that knew his history and had experience with bloat dogs (she had Irish Wolf Hounds that bloated years ago).. he is a happy and healthy 5yr old now. Just over 1yr after the puppy bloated his father was at the co-owners house, she came home from work and found him dead.. he bloated. She said he was fine that morning before she left, acting happy and energetic like he normally was. I do not have any dogs closely or directly related to those 2 dogs anymore... except for one of my smooths who is an outcross one the other side of her pedigree.. so she is not tightly bred on it all...

I have known so many other breeders who have lost so many dogs to bloat and I just don't understand why they try to make excuses for it or even try to hide that it happened... it doesn't help the breed... just admit there is a problem and work to fix it! There are pleanty of other lines out there with no history of bloat... that is one reason why I bought my smooth male Zack several years ago.. I'll post his picture.
Zack is Paris, Kelsey and Lucy's sire.. and the grandsire of Aiden and Andy.


Zack

He is tightly bred on and is from a long line of geneticly sound and healthy, long lived dogs.. his great grandsire "Andre" as of the 2007 CCA nationals (where I last saw Andre) was still alive and showed at the national in the 11+yr old Vetran class... he was very slow to move.. but he was 14yrs old at that point!!

A few years ago me and a friend of mine were visiting another collie kennel just to see what they had and look at their dogs.. and the lady there had this 7yr old male she was so excited she was going to have a vetran dog to show at the national that year.. she said she had never had one before.. said her dogs didn't usually make it that long.... please tell me why that is a good thing????

Ok.. I could go on and on about this.. so I better stop now...

Janna

[Flatcoatluver]

Thank you Janna,

You have gave me a lot of information, that I did not get from a lot of breeders when I was talking to collie breeders. One collie breeder said that she only fed her dogs once a day and then lets them out to play 15 mins later. I was a little shocked by that one.

Zack is a stunner!

[Spiritwind]

Thank you Janna,

You have gave me a lot of information, that I did not get from a lot of breeders when I was talking to collie breeders. One collie breeder said that she only fed her dogs once a day and then lets them out to play 15 mins later. I was a little shocked by that one.

Zack is a stunner!

Oh yes.. I've heard of people that do that too... first they will soak the food in warm water for 15 minutes or so to make it all soggy and gross.. then feed them and keep them confined in a crate for 15 minutes or more.. After my first dog bloated I did that for a little while.. but the 2nd dog that bloated, bloated on an empty stomach.. Also both dogs were eating Canidae so you really can't blame the quality of food the dog eats on its bloating..... so while you can try to reduce the risks of bloat, short of tacking the stomachs ahead of time (something I hope breeders do NOT start doing) you can't really prevent it from happening 100% if its gonna happen..

I no longer crate my dogs after eating haven't done that in years.. you have to let them be dogs... they live in a group together (except when girls are in season)... They are fed once a day... they eat a mixture of Canidae and Diamond Naturals, and add 1 can of food and a little bit of warm water to help mix the canned food.. I mix it all up in a large bowl (1 can between 9 dogs so not alot of canned) and scoop it out to their bowls... after they eat if they want to go run and play they can do so... if they want to go crash on the couch they can do that too LOL

[cassiesmom]

Spiritwind, your dogs are beautiful!!

My mom has a friend who has a Sheltie. I've only met him a couple of times - he is very active. Binka nugget said "zoomy", I think that's an ideal description! When I was little, we had a family friend that had a collie. I liked to comb him, and then pet him to "mess it up", and then comb him some more. He put up with me doing that!

[cassiesmom]

Spiritwind, your dogs are beautiful!!

My mom has a friend who has a Sheltie. I've only met him a couple of times - he is very active. Binka nugget said "zoomy", I think that's an ideal description! When I was little, we had a family friend that had a collie. I liked to comb him, and then pet him to "mess it up", and then comb him some more. He put up with me doing that!

We visited my mom's friend - and her Sheltie - on Saturday. He was very happily zoomy! Like "You're playing with me and we're outside! Isn't that just the greatest thing ever?!" When we went inside for coffee, though, he did go around to everyone, one by one, for petting.

[cassiesmom]

Hello, Andy and Aiden, Angie, Kelsey and Paris ... I was just looking at pictures of Lucy in another thread so I came back to look at the pictures of beautiful you again too!

[cassiesmom]

Dear Aiden and Andy, I copied this photo from Robilee's thread about Zack. Just in case I haven't already said so today - You are very, very beautiful! Zack is very beautiful, you are both fluffy and magnificent. Paris and Kelsey, Angie and Lucy -- you are gorgeous ladies! And I am back here looking at all your pictures again today because they make me smile!

[Spiritwind]

Thanks Cassiesmom!

Just for added info.. Zack is Andy and Aiden's grandsire! I just love the picture Robin got of those 2 goofy boys!!