Chloe's snapping at the kids

[Canis-Lupess]

The idea of dominance has now been thrown out by top behaviourists as twoddle. It was a bit of a pain changing the midset after years of being told these things were down to dominance. If you do a bit of googling, you'll probably find references on this subject.

I also agree that this isn't a fearful behaviour..defending the camera bag and all.
The aggression in that situation is simply down to defending resources from an individual who the dog doesn't have respect for.

Dogs do view their human owners as sort of mother/father figures but we need to set a good example and act as a guide. If we let the dog have too much leeway and then try to take something away from the dog that it is used to getting, no doubt that dog will try and defend what it already has to stop it being taken away and will rebel. It's not about dominance as such and rather about lack of respect for your guidance. Young children are the same in this respect although it is important to not anthropomorphize, small children do learn in a very similar way to dogs.
She doesn't have a go at you because you've been everything that a proper guide should be and she respects you for it. As the others have not, this is why she shows aggression.

With food aggression, the best way to combat that is to teach them that you are all givers and not taker. Get two dishes for her food. Put the one she eats out of on the floor and keep the food in the other that you hold. Call her over for her food and put a little of the food in her eating dish and let her eat it. Once she's done, put a bit more in and keep doing that until it's all gone. She knows then that there is no point in growling at you because you're going to put more in, not take it away. This was a technique advised by John Fisher a former top behaviourist who sadly died. If you can get various family members to all do it in turn at different meals although you should do it at first if her aggression is too dangerous for the kids to try and then the growling in defence should cease because she'll learn that she needs to let you stick around so yiu can give her more until all the food in the first dish is used up and get her used to being touched a little on her main body as she eats the food but only once she's stopped the growling to start with. It will be a bit of an inconvenience but once she's fine with that, you can gradually cut it out the feeding her like this and just give it all in one go and, by then, hopefully, her growling habit will have gone. It will be well worth the effort because food guarders are quite horrid at mealtimes.
As for cat food, maybe feeding them on a raised surface so that, even if chloe manages to get into where the cat food is, she can't reach it. Thats what we do. The cats get fed on the side in the porch... out of Jess's reach.

Also, for a collie/aussie mix, 45 minutes when you get home from school might not actually be enough for a dog thats a cross between two high energy breeds. When you say collie, which collie breed do you mean? There are four of them and they can be quite different.
I have Border collies for example, the most energetic of the lot. 45 minutes a day for such dogs isn't enough really and they also need the mental stimulation as well as the physical. Lack of either can also cause frustration leading to aggression and thats why a lot of Border collies end up in rescues and such. Apparently, they are the number one breed to have problems with and thats because of unsuitable owners, not the fault of the dogs. I'm not saying you are unsuitable and you've obviously put a lot of effort into her but you need to remember the high levels of stimulation these dogs need and not just the physical type.
Another thing is that if a rapport doesn't exist between her and other family members, they aren't really going to get anything out of her. Dogs being sociable pack animals need to identify with their packmates on an emotional level and wolves are always undergoing rituals to enforce these mental and physical bonds with each other for this very reason. This also needs to happen at home. Thats why it is important to only bring a dog into a household if everyone in that household wants the dog and is able to develop a rapport with it.


I didn't read all the post admittedly but where aggression is concerned and, especially with kids, it is much wiser to have a pet behaviourist come in person and see her with their own eyes around all members of the family and perhaps arrange for a visitor so they can see the dog with them.
Giving advice over the internet for a situation that you aren't 100% on can be quite dangerous, even though I've just given some...lol, and even top behaviourists won't do it. I doubt the advice I just gave would be enough to sort everything or all the other advice in the thread either because none of us has been able to witness the general situation first hand or had the full training needed to become a qualified pet behaviourist.
Hope you manage to find one and nip the problems in the bud now.

[Giselle]

I don't carry around Bacon Bits in my pocket all day long either, but teaching new behaviors always requires heavy treating for the first few weeks/months and then gradually fading it out to mere jackpotting every now and then. If Chloe only gives up her objects for food, don't give up and assume that the food will become a crutch. Furthermore, you're right. You can use the play with the toy as a reward, but you can't work up to that unless Chloe understands 'Give' well enough. If she's getting too amped up and won't give up her toy, stop. Just stand there and hold the toy. She will stop trying to tug it from you and will stand there with the toy in her mouth. Say 'Give', treat, resume play. Eventually, she'll let go when you stop playing, and you can in turn use that to cement your 'Give'. It's doable and it does require a lot of treating, but, in the end, you have a dog who *wants* to give up her items. And if Chloe wants to give up her items, there's no more reason left for her to growl or snap at people.

[Blackrose]

Also, for a collie/aussie mix, 45 minutes when you get home from school might not actually be enough for a dog thats a cross between two high energy breeds. When you say collie, which collie breed do you mean? There are four of them and they can be quite different.

She is part Collie, as in Lassie. She probably does need a longer walk, but I'm scared that it will be too much for her joints. I've been told over and over again that heavily exercising a dog before they are at least one year old can cause all sorts of joint problems. I'd love to start jogging and doing agility with her as well, but her only being six months shoots that down. But for all of her flaws, she does walk well on a leash.
After the walk, she lays down for a little bit depending on what kind of activity is going on in the house (if me and just one other person are the only people here, she lays down and sleeps until dinner time, and then after a brief play session she is out again, but if there is a lot of people moving about, and with a family of seven that is quite often, she is still hyper and a pain in the rear). Generally she'll get a couple of fetch sessions coupled with obedience work, and maybe a short 10min walk around our field, before bed.

I didn't read all the post admittedly but where aggression is concerned and, especially with kids, it is much wiser to have a pet behaviourist come in person and see her with their own eyes around all members of the family and perhaps arrange for a visitor so they can see the dog with them.

It would be a struggle for me to afford a behaviourist. I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I'm going to try and work it out on my own before doing anything. Not only would it be hard for me to afford, I can't find any in my area.

I don't carry around Bacon Bits in my pocket all day long either, but teaching new behaviors always requires heavy treating for the first few weeks/months and then gradually fading it out to mere jackpotting every now and then. If Chloe only gives up her objects for food, don't give up and assume that the food will become a crutch. Furthermore, you're right. You can use the play with the toy as a reward, but you can't work up to that unless Chloe understands 'Give' well enough. If she's getting too amped up and won't give up her toy, stop. Just stand there and hold the toy. She will stop trying to tug it from you and will stand there with the toy in her mouth. Say 'Give', treat, resume play. Eventually, she'll let go when you stop playing, and you can in turn use that to cement your 'Give'. It's doable and it does require a lot of treating, but, in the end, you have a dog who *wants* to give up her items. And if Chloe wants to give up her items, there's no more reason left for her to growl or snap at people.

This was originally what I was doing. It got to the point where she'd stop tugging the toy when I stopped, but she would NOT let go of that toy until she saw that I had a treat ready for her. Once she saw the treat in my hand she'd spit the toy and take the treat. If I tried to trick her by acting like I had a treat in my hand, she'd give me a look like, "Phhhh, ya right. I've got you figured out lady," and she wouldn't let go of the toy.

[Blackrose]

While I'm going to be doing the main training with Chloe, here are the rules I'm setting up for everyone else to follow. Let me know what you think:

1. Dog cannot demand attention from humans.
a.) If Chloe comes up to you for attention, DO NOT give it to her. Have her do an obedience command first – sit, down, stay, shake, etc. Then you can pet her on YOUR TERMS. If she jumps up, stop all affection immediately. Don't even scold her, just ignore her. When she gets off, give her a command and when she listens, you can pet her again.

b.) Don't set her up to fail. If talking to her in a baby voice gets her excited and jumping up, don't talk to her in a baby voice. If you know she will be bouncing around like an idiot when you walk in the door, ignore her (don't look at her, don't talk to her, don't do anything) until she is calm.

2. Dog is not to take things (anything) from humans.
a.) This includes food, toys, a shirt, anything. She is NOT allowed to jump up, or even attempt to jump up, and grab anything from you, even if it is one of her own toys. They aren't HER toys; they are YOUR toys that you are letting her play with.

b.) Don't set her up to fail. If you know she will try to eat your food, don't eat it on the floor where she can get to it. If she does jump up, firmly command her "off" and to "leave it". If she does it again, correct her with a growly, "Ah-ah! Leave it." and turn your back to her. Don't yell, hit, or scream, talk in a calm voice and turn your back to her. If she is trying to get one of the dog toys, you can let her have it WHEN she is sitting down calmly and isn't trying to get it.

3. Dog does not chase humans
a.) Even in play. Chasing is exciting, and exciting causes nipping, jumping, and barking. If you don't want her to chase a squealing toddler, then don't let her chase you.

b.) Don't set her up to fail. If you are running like a maniac through the house, she's going to want to chase you. Be calm. If she starts to chase you, stop dead. Turn your back on her. Ignore her. This may cause her to bark and nip at you. Still ignore her. She is chasing you because she wants to attention and wants to play. If you don't give her attention (yes, yelling at her IS attention) then she doesn't get rewarded for her actions. No reward, the behavior dies out. Once she is still, tell her to sit. Tell her good girl, give her a pat, and then be on your way.

4. Humans do not chase dog.
a.) EVER. Chasing a dog encourages it to run away from you. If she gets loose and takes off running, do you want her to think that you running after her is a game? If she is chewing on a sock and you chase her throughout the house to get it, you've just taught her the marvelous game of keep away.

b.) If she does get loose from you and you want her to come, act like you are throwing a party and happily call her name while running in the other direction. She'll come. If not, then she most definitely wouldn't have come if you were chasing her screaming bloody murder. If she tries to play keep away with an object, do the same thing.

5. Dog is not allowed on lap unless invited.
a.) see #1. Same rules apply.

6. Dog is not allowed to play with human unless invited.
a.) If Chloe brings up a toy to you to play with, that is great. But if you don't want to play with her, she needs to learn that she can't get her way. Just like with #1, play with her on your terms. You begin the game, you stop the game. If she keeps pushing the toy in your lap and won't leave you alone, follow the guidelines for #1.

7. Dog is not allowed to mouth human.
a.) This includes in play or if you are just walking. Depending on why she is mouthing you is how you should answer the issue.

b.) If she mouths you in play, yell, "Ouch!" and stop playing. Ignore her for about ten seconds, and then you can start the game again. If she mouths you for attention, ignore her or leave the room. She needs to learn that mouthing causes the attention and playtime to go away, not causes it to happen.

8. Humans give love, treats, and play time only when dog is calm and being "good" following the rules.
a.) This is self explanatory. If she isn't behaving, directing her by telling her what she needs to be doing and then rewarding her with petting and play time will help her become a better dog all together. Rewarding her while she is misbehaving will result in her misbehaving more often!

** If her behavior seems to get worse when you ignore her, this is actually a good thing! Just like if a toddler is pitching a fit and screaming its head off, it may get to the point it is gagging and throwing up before it finally stops because its tantrum isn't effective anymore. If you give in and pay attention to Chloe while she's pitching a fit, you have just reinforced that fit.

[Giselle]

Ah, it looks like Chloe is a "show me the money" type of dog. In that case, it's a test of wit between you and Chloe. Basically, you have to stick it out. When you play with her and she's firmly grabbing onto the toy, I'd stop and wait. Even if you have to wait 5 minutes like a stock still statue, do it. Eventually, she HAS to loosen her grip because there's no more reason to hang on. As soon as she loosens her grip say "Give" and treat. As always, repeat repeat repeat. Since she inadvertently equates the presence of the treat to the behavior, take away the treat lure and wait for the behavior. Introduce the treat after the behavior, and that eliminates the "show me the money" attitude.

And those are good guidelines! Let's just hope your family can follow them

[Canis-Lupess]

Ah, so she is crossed with a Rough collie then? So many people refer to these as just collies but sometimes refer to borders as just collies too so you never know which collie they mean. The proper name for the breed that lassie was is Rough Collie.

Actually, the only true collie is the Border collie because the other three are a result of crossing the original collie breed with totally different dogs. The Border collie is the only direct descendent of the original founding collie breed and still looks pretty much like it.

Yes, rough collies are generally more sedate than Borders but then the aussie side will up that energy a bit no doubt. For a growing dog, yes, too much exercise is bad but more regular shorter walks spread across the day are better than just one walk in a whole 24 hour period. Maybe try and split the time into two or three shorter walks so she doesn't spend so many consecutive hours stuck at home.

If Chloe was used to getting her way before, no doubt if you decide to start ignoring her, she'll try even harder to get what she was used to getting. This is bound to happen and the rules of starting as you mean to go on is the best advice when getting a new pup so that this doesn't occur in the first place. You'd have to stick rigidly to your plans and never give in if you want this to work. It won't go away overnight no doubt and being as fogs are individuals, nobody can say for sure how long it will be before she gets the message. It's just a case of slogging it out.

If she gets overly excited when people return home, you can do a little more than just ignore the behaviour until she has calmed. Make sure when she has calmed, you give her the attention in an inner room away from doorways and get her to sit for a food reward before she gets the attention. This way, when you get home, instead of rushing around you in the hallways or whatever, she'll probably make her way to the room she gets her reward and fuss in and wait for you to come in. This gives you chance to take your outdoor clobber off and sort yourself out before going in there and greeting her calmly. The food reward will be an incentive for her to make her way to that room straight away.

[Blackrose]

I sat down and talked to my family last night about Chloe, and everything went rather well. They had some questions and I answered them to the best of my ability.
I know that it sunk in a little bit because later that evening Chloe jumped up on Melanie, and instead of Melanie whining, "Chloe, stop it!" and pushing her away and then my mom yelling, "Andrea, come get your dog, she's jumping on Melanie!" (or even worse, her saying, "Hi Chloe!" and petting her), Mel stopped and turned her back on Chloe. Chloe stopped jumping up and then Mel turned back around, told Chloe to sit, and then pet her.
Its going to take a while and I'm probably going to have to constantly remind everyone what they are supposed to be doing, but hopefully after a while it will work.

Ah, so she is crossed with a Rough collie then? So many people refer to these as just collies but sometimes refer to borders as just collies too so you never know which collie they mean. The proper name for the breed that lassie was is Rough Collie.

Actually, the only true collie is the Border collie because the other three are a result of crossing the original collie breed with totally different dogs. The Border collie is the only direct descendent of the original founding collie breed and still looks pretty much like it.

I guess you learn something every day! I didn't know that.

Ah, it looks like Chloe is a "show me the money" type of dog. In that case, it's a test of wit between you and Chloe. Basically, you have to stick it out. When you play with her and she's firmly grabbing onto the toy, I'd stop and wait. Even if you have to wait 5 minutes like a stock still statue, do it. Eventually, she HAS to loosen her grip because there's no more reason to hang on. As soon as she loosens her grip say "Give" and treat. As always, repeat repeat repeat. Since she inadvertently equates the presence of the treat to the behavior, take away the treat lure and wait for the behavior. Introduce the treat after the behavior, and that eliminates the "show me the money" attitude.

I've been starting to do this and its been working so far. The only problem with that is when she just sits there and chews on the toy while I'm holding it and accidentally chomps my hand instead! (Her favorite fetch toy is a small squeeky 4-5in football...not alot of room for my hand and her mouth.)

Yes, rough collies are generally more sedate than Borders but then the aussie side will up that energy a bit no doubt. For a growing dog, yes, too much exercise is bad but more regular shorter walks spread across the day are better than just one walk in a whole 24 hour period. Maybe try and split the time into two or three shorter walks so she doesn't spend so many consecutive hours stuck at home.

I think I finally figured out an exercise plan to fit her and keep her tired out. I've upped her evening walk to an hour. We walk for about two miles and then around our field. After that she is content to lay down for about an hour or so. Then after she eats dinner she gets active again, so I sit down and play fetch with her for about fifteen minutes, only throwing in different obedience commands to tire her out mentally as well as physically. After that, she generally will lay back down and is ready to hang out for the rest of the night, the exception being if the kids get her hyper.
Since I'm not home during the morning/early afternoon, I don't have to worry about her then.