Chloe's snapping at the kids

[Blackrose]

I put "dominance" in quotes because I when I talk about dominance, I'm not talking about "alphas" and "dominance" and "being the master over your dog buy doing yadda yadda yadda".
When I think of dominance in a dog, I think it is more of a respect issue. For instance, I'll use my friend and her horse as an example. When my Sarah first got her Welsh Pony, she hopped up on him to ride him. She told him to walk forward and he backed up. She tried to get him to canter and he walked over to a tree and started eating the leaves. Every time she told him to do something, he did something else just to see what he could get away with. She corrected him, showed him that she meant business, and then he was a little angel.
But then when her less horse savvy brother rides Cody, Cody is a butt head just because John doesn't inforce, nor does he know how to inforce, anything.

From what I know about Chloe, I don't think it is a fear issue. She can be skittish around new things (skirts around it, then investigates it), but when she snaps at someone her body language is anything but fearful. And if she was truely afraid that her resources were going to be taken away, I don't think she would also act that way around me. In the situations I posted about earlier, I can do the exact same thing that everyone else did, and she doesn't care and listens. If the rest of the family tries to do that, they get snapped at and barked at. She is a dominant dog (and again, when I say dominant, I mean a dog that is constantly trying to bend the rules to see what she can get away with versus a dog who will listen to every word that comes out of your mouth like it's scripture).
Since I'm the only one who ever inforces anything, I'm the only one she'll listen too. Blackie and Rose are kind of like that, but they aren't as testing with everyone as Chloe is. Melanie, my six year old sister, can go out to Blackie and Rose and tell them to do anything and they'll do it. If Mel tells Chloe to do something, and since Chloe knows that Mel can't inforce it, Chloe just won't do it.

She is healthy as a horse. When she was spayed she had an infection and on top of that she had worms, but that has all cleared up now.

[Giselle]

A dog testing the waters is not a dominant dog. Like I said, from 6-10 months is the first rebellion stage. It's a completely normal part of puppy development. But aside from debating whether or not Chloe is dominant or fearful or disrespectful, the problem is that she's protecting her food. The only way you can successfully remedy that is to have a concrete "Give" or "Drop it". The best method is not to correct her when she growls but to prevent her from putting on the defense at all.

Give her a yummy treat and then take the resource away. Repeat repeat repeat. You, of course, will be the main trainer, but encourage your family members to help you every once in a while. Say, have your family gather together for 5 minutes once a week and help train her. If they aren't willing to help, warn them that Chloe's snaps could becoming skin-breaking lunges and that's not exaggerating. I made this same mistake with my first dog and he broke skin several times.

As long as you have a concrete "Give" and you practice every day, Chloe should listen no matter who's commanding and no matter what she has in her mouth. "Give" is the single most important command I've taught Ivy and she listens to my trainer, my parents, my friends, and she listens no matter what is in her mouth - even a raw bone. If crazy Ivy can do it, Chloe should breeze through it!

[Blackrose]

A dog testing the waters is not a dominant dog. Like I said, from 6-10 months is the first rebellion stage. It's a completely normal part of puppy development. But aside from debating whether or not Chloe is dominant or fearful or disrespectful, the problem is that she's protecting her food. The only way you can successfully remedy that is to have a concrete "Give" or "Drop it". The best method is not to correct her when she growls but to prevent her from putting on the defense at all.

Give her a yummy treat and then take the resource away. Repeat repeat repeat. You, of course, will be the main trainer, but encourage your family members to help you every once in a while. Say, have your family gather together for 5 minutes once a week and help train her. If they aren't willing to help, warn them that Chloe's snaps could becoming skin-breaking lunges and that's not exaggerating. I made this same mistake with my first dog and he broke skin several times.

As long as you have a concrete "Give" and you practice every day, Chloe should listen no matter who's commanding and no matter what she has in her mouth. "Give" is the single most important command I've taught Ivy and she listens to my trainer, my parents, my friends, and she listens no matter what is in her mouth - even a raw bone. If crazy Ivy can do it, Chloe should breeze through it!

I have no doubt that Chloe is possessive over high valued food items (she's occasionally been over nonfood items, but very rarely). The very first time I gave her a rawhide treat she snarled at me when I walked by her. I sat down and worked with her and it got to the point that I could have my han by her head while she was chewing on it, but she was very tense. I traded a training treat for the rawhide and she's not had a rawhide since.
I can get her to drop anything, no matter what the value, for a pea sized training treat, but that is the extent of it. I don't carry broken up peices of Begg'n Strips in my pocket 24/7, nor does anyone else I know personally, so this doesn't do me a lot of good. I can't seem to get her to understand that the command means the same thing even when I don't have treats.

How I tought Sadie to drop it was when I was playing tug with her I would tell her "Thank you" whenever I won the toy back. After she seemed to get the idea, I would tell her "Thank you" and then cease all playtime until she gave me the toy. Then she was praised and the game would start up again. It got to the point with her that I could tell her "thank you" in the middle of an intense game of tug and she'd let go of it. Her reward when she did that was that she'd get the toy back and the game would resume.

Chloe doesn't seem to get the concept of that. I was told it might be helpful to switch toys (dog drops one toy and immeadiatly gets to play with another) but she gets so focused on one toy, it doesn't matter what the value of the toy is to her, she won't play with any other toy other than the one she was playing with at the moment.

[Canis-Lupess]

The idea of dominance has now been thrown out by top behaviourists as twoddle. It was a bit of a pain changing the midset after years of being told these things were down to dominance. If you do a bit of googling, you'll probably find references on this subject.

I also agree that this isn't a fearful behaviour..defending the camera bag and all.
The aggression in that situation is simply down to defending resources from an individual who the dog doesn't have respect for.

Dogs do view their human owners as sort of mother/father figures but we need to set a good example and act as a guide. If we let the dog have too much leeway and then try to take something away from the dog that it is used to getting, no doubt that dog will try and defend what it already has to stop it being taken away and will rebel. It's not about dominance as such and rather about lack of respect for your guidance. Young children are the same in this respect although it is important to not anthropomorphize, small children do learn in a very similar way to dogs.
She doesn't have a go at you because you've been everything that a proper guide should be and she respects you for it. As the others have not, this is why she shows aggression.

With food aggression, the best way to combat that is to teach them that you are all givers and not taker. Get two dishes for her food. Put the one she eats out of on the floor and keep the food in the other that you hold. Call her over for her food and put a little of the food in her eating dish and let her eat it. Once she's done, put a bit more in and keep doing that until it's all gone. She knows then that there is no point in growling at you because you're going to put more in, not take it away. This was a technique advised by John Fisher a former top behaviourist who sadly died. If you can get various family members to all do it in turn at different meals although you should do it at first if her aggression is too dangerous for the kids to try and then the growling in defence should cease because she'll learn that she needs to let you stick around so yiu can give her more until all the food in the first dish is used up and get her used to being touched a little on her main body as she eats the food but only once she's stopped the growling to start with. It will be a bit of an inconvenience but once she's fine with that, you can gradually cut it out the feeding her like this and just give it all in one go and, by then, hopefully, her growling habit will have gone. It will be well worth the effort because food guarders are quite horrid at mealtimes.
As for cat food, maybe feeding them on a raised surface so that, even if chloe manages to get into where the cat food is, she can't reach it. Thats what we do. The cats get fed on the side in the porch... out of Jess's reach.

Also, for a collie/aussie mix, 45 minutes when you get home from school might not actually be enough for a dog thats a cross between two high energy breeds. When you say collie, which collie breed do you mean? There are four of them and they can be quite different.
I have Border collies for example, the most energetic of the lot. 45 minutes a day for such dogs isn't enough really and they also need the mental stimulation as well as the physical. Lack of either can also cause frustration leading to aggression and thats why a lot of Border collies end up in rescues and such. Apparently, they are the number one breed to have problems with and thats because of unsuitable owners, not the fault of the dogs. I'm not saying you are unsuitable and you've obviously put a lot of effort into her but you need to remember the high levels of stimulation these dogs need and not just the physical type.
Another thing is that if a rapport doesn't exist between her and other family members, they aren't really going to get anything out of her. Dogs being sociable pack animals need to identify with their packmates on an emotional level and wolves are always undergoing rituals to enforce these mental and physical bonds with each other for this very reason. This also needs to happen at home. Thats why it is important to only bring a dog into a household if everyone in that household wants the dog and is able to develop a rapport with it.


I didn't read all the post admittedly but where aggression is concerned and, especially with kids, it is much wiser to have a pet behaviourist come in person and see her with their own eyes around all members of the family and perhaps arrange for a visitor so they can see the dog with them.
Giving advice over the internet for a situation that you aren't 100% on can be quite dangerous, even though I've just given some...lol, and even top behaviourists won't do it. I doubt the advice I just gave would be enough to sort everything or all the other advice in the thread either because none of us has been able to witness the general situation first hand or had the full training needed to become a qualified pet behaviourist.
Hope you manage to find one and nip the problems in the bud now.

[Giselle]

I don't carry around Bacon Bits in my pocket all day long either, but teaching new behaviors always requires heavy treating for the first few weeks/months and then gradually fading it out to mere jackpotting every now and then. If Chloe only gives up her objects for food, don't give up and assume that the food will become a crutch. Furthermore, you're right. You can use the play with the toy as a reward, but you can't work up to that unless Chloe understands 'Give' well enough. If she's getting too amped up and won't give up her toy, stop. Just stand there and hold the toy. She will stop trying to tug it from you and will stand there with the toy in her mouth. Say 'Give', treat, resume play. Eventually, she'll let go when you stop playing, and you can in turn use that to cement your 'Give'. It's doable and it does require a lot of treating, but, in the end, you have a dog who *wants* to give up her items. And if Chloe wants to give up her items, there's no more reason left for her to growl or snap at people.

[Blackrose]

Also, for a collie/aussie mix, 45 minutes when you get home from school might not actually be enough for a dog thats a cross between two high energy breeds. When you say collie, which collie breed do you mean? There are four of them and they can be quite different.

She is part Collie, as in Lassie. She probably does need a longer walk, but I'm scared that it will be too much for her joints. I've been told over and over again that heavily exercising a dog before they are at least one year old can cause all sorts of joint problems. I'd love to start jogging and doing agility with her as well, but her only being six months shoots that down. But for all of her flaws, she does walk well on a leash.
After the walk, she lays down for a little bit depending on what kind of activity is going on in the house (if me and just one other person are the only people here, she lays down and sleeps until dinner time, and then after a brief play session she is out again, but if there is a lot of people moving about, and with a family of seven that is quite often, she is still hyper and a pain in the rear). Generally she'll get a couple of fetch sessions coupled with obedience work, and maybe a short 10min walk around our field, before bed.

I didn't read all the post admittedly but where aggression is concerned and, especially with kids, it is much wiser to have a pet behaviourist come in person and see her with their own eyes around all members of the family and perhaps arrange for a visitor so they can see the dog with them.

It would be a struggle for me to afford a behaviourist. I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but I'm going to try and work it out on my own before doing anything. Not only would it be hard for me to afford, I can't find any in my area.

I don't carry around Bacon Bits in my pocket all day long either, but teaching new behaviors always requires heavy treating for the first few weeks/months and then gradually fading it out to mere jackpotting every now and then. If Chloe only gives up her objects for food, don't give up and assume that the food will become a crutch. Furthermore, you're right. You can use the play with the toy as a reward, but you can't work up to that unless Chloe understands 'Give' well enough. If she's getting too amped up and won't give up her toy, stop. Just stand there and hold the toy. She will stop trying to tug it from you and will stand there with the toy in her mouth. Say 'Give', treat, resume play. Eventually, she'll let go when you stop playing, and you can in turn use that to cement your 'Give'. It's doable and it does require a lot of treating, but, in the end, you have a dog who *wants* to give up her items. And if Chloe wants to give up her items, there's no more reason left for her to growl or snap at people.

This was originally what I was doing. It got to the point where she'd stop tugging the toy when I stopped, but she would NOT let go of that toy until she saw that I had a treat ready for her. Once she saw the treat in my hand she'd spit the toy and take the treat. If I tried to trick her by acting like I had a treat in my hand, she'd give me a look like, "Phhhh, ya right. I've got you figured out lady," and she wouldn't let go of the toy.

[Blackrose]

While I'm going to be doing the main training with Chloe, here are the rules I'm setting up for everyone else to follow. Let me know what you think:

1. Dog cannot demand attention from humans.
a.) If Chloe comes up to you for attention, DO NOT give it to her. Have her do an obedience command first – sit, down, stay, shake, etc. Then you can pet her on YOUR TERMS. If she jumps up, stop all affection immediately. Don't even scold her, just ignore her. When she gets off, give her a command and when she listens, you can pet her again.

b.) Don't set her up to fail. If talking to her in a baby voice gets her excited and jumping up, don't talk to her in a baby voice. If you know she will be bouncing around like an idiot when you walk in the door, ignore her (don't look at her, don't talk to her, don't do anything) until she is calm.

2. Dog is not to take things (anything) from humans.
a.) This includes food, toys, a shirt, anything. She is NOT allowed to jump up, or even attempt to jump up, and grab anything from you, even if it is one of her own toys. They aren't HER toys; they are YOUR toys that you are letting her play with.

b.) Don't set her up to fail. If you know she will try to eat your food, don't eat it on the floor where she can get to it. If she does jump up, firmly command her "off" and to "leave it". If she does it again, correct her with a growly, "Ah-ah! Leave it." and turn your back to her. Don't yell, hit, or scream, talk in a calm voice and turn your back to her. If she is trying to get one of the dog toys, you can let her have it WHEN she is sitting down calmly and isn't trying to get it.

3. Dog does not chase humans
a.) Even in play. Chasing is exciting, and exciting causes nipping, jumping, and barking. If you don't want her to chase a squealing toddler, then don't let her chase you.

b.) Don't set her up to fail. If you are running like a maniac through the house, she's going to want to chase you. Be calm. If she starts to chase you, stop dead. Turn your back on her. Ignore her. This may cause her to bark and nip at you. Still ignore her. She is chasing you because she wants to attention and wants to play. If you don't give her attention (yes, yelling at her IS attention) then she doesn't get rewarded for her actions. No reward, the behavior dies out. Once she is still, tell her to sit. Tell her good girl, give her a pat, and then be on your way.

4. Humans do not chase dog.
a.) EVER. Chasing a dog encourages it to run away from you. If she gets loose and takes off running, do you want her to think that you running after her is a game? If she is chewing on a sock and you chase her throughout the house to get it, you've just taught her the marvelous game of keep away.

b.) If she does get loose from you and you want her to come, act like you are throwing a party and happily call her name while running in the other direction. She'll come. If not, then she most definitely wouldn't have come if you were chasing her screaming bloody murder. If she tries to play keep away with an object, do the same thing.

5. Dog is not allowed on lap unless invited.
a.) see #1. Same rules apply.

6. Dog is not allowed to play with human unless invited.
a.) If Chloe brings up a toy to you to play with, that is great. But if you don't want to play with her, she needs to learn that she can't get her way. Just like with #1, play with her on your terms. You begin the game, you stop the game. If she keeps pushing the toy in your lap and won't leave you alone, follow the guidelines for #1.

7. Dog is not allowed to mouth human.
a.) This includes in play or if you are just walking. Depending on why she is mouthing you is how you should answer the issue.

b.) If she mouths you in play, yell, "Ouch!" and stop playing. Ignore her for about ten seconds, and then you can start the game again. If she mouths you for attention, ignore her or leave the room. She needs to learn that mouthing causes the attention and playtime to go away, not causes it to happen.

8. Humans give love, treats, and play time only when dog is calm and being "good" following the rules.
a.) This is self explanatory. If she isn't behaving, directing her by telling her what she needs to be doing and then rewarding her with petting and play time will help her become a better dog all together. Rewarding her while she is misbehaving will result in her misbehaving more often!

** If her behavior seems to get worse when you ignore her, this is actually a good thing! Just like if a toddler is pitching a fit and screaming its head off, it may get to the point it is gagging and throwing up before it finally stops because its tantrum isn't effective anymore. If you give in and pay attention to Chloe while she's pitching a fit, you have just reinforced that fit.

[Giselle]

Ah, it looks like Chloe is a "show me the money" type of dog. In that case, it's a test of wit between you and Chloe. Basically, you have to stick it out. When you play with her and she's firmly grabbing onto the toy, I'd stop and wait. Even if you have to wait 5 minutes like a stock still statue, do it. Eventually, she HAS to loosen her grip because there's no more reason to hang on. As soon as she loosens her grip say "Give" and treat. As always, repeat repeat repeat. Since she inadvertently equates the presence of the treat to the behavior, take away the treat lure and wait for the behavior. Introduce the treat after the behavior, and that eliminates the "show me the money" attitude.

And those are good guidelines! Let's just hope your family can follow them