Leerburg Obedience training?

[crow_noir]

Just reading through what you cross posted Blackrose. What give me pause is how this guy seems intent on "holding" the punishment. Do people forget so easily that when a dog is "correcting" another dog it is a mere few tiny seconds or milliseconds. Why should we do any different. The only time a dog is "holding" a punishment is when it is an aggressive dog continuing the punishment. (With the exception of time outs. Even then dogs giving time outs to other dogs generally give them for shorter time period then humans to. Some of the time periods humans give would be the equivalent of telling a dog it's banished from the pack.)

[Blackrose]

Just reading through what you cross posted Blackrose. What give me pause is how this guy seems intent on "holding" the punishment. Do people forget so easily that when a dog is "correcting" another dog it is a mere few tiny seconds or milliseconds. Why should we do any different. The only time a dog is "holding" a punishment is when it is an aggressive dog continuing the punishment. (With the exception of time outs. Even then dogs giving time outs to other dogs generally give them for shorter time period then humans to. Some of the time periods humans give would be the equivalent of telling a dog it's banished from the pack.)

This was a thought that crossed my mind as well. I use "punishment", or correction, with Chloe. Trust me, I used all positive training with her, we'd get no where.

But from all that I have read and experienced, when you correct a dog, you should use the least amount of correction possible and as SOON as the dog shows the slightest sign of "okay, okay, I understand", you stop. For instance, your dog has a toy it isn't supposed to have. You don't scold the dog and keep yelling at it even when its ears are back and it is hunkered down.
If the dog is jumping on people, you don't pinch its webbing until it yelps if before the yelping it is trying in every possible way to be submissive. That just teaches the dog that its signals are being ignored.
I don't agree with punishing a dog for jumping to begin with....it thinks it is doing a good thing, but then you are punishing it without teaching it what you want first. I'm sure if every time Chloe jumped (she is a SPRING POLE!) on someone and they pinched her feet she'd stop jumping, but she'd be terrified of people...you touch the cookie sheet coming out of the oven and get burnt that doesn't stop you from baking cookies, but it does teach you to be afraid of the cookie sheet.

[Giselle]

I've read some of his articles and training advice, and it all sounds like physical domination. Unless you have an exceptionally hard dog, every punishment can create fear.
(hardness: "the dog's ability to recuperate from a disagreeable experience")

That said, I think Frawley is another Cesar Millan and I don't agree with either of them. They have some good ideas, but their good ideas are overshadowed by their ignorance towards real dog behavior. Alpha dogs don't grab the scruff of puppies until they scream for mercy. That's called violent abuse, not respectful leadership.

[cyber-sibes]

Hmm, I appreciate the feedback from everyone. I thought he sounded a bit over the top on some issues, and don't agree with everything he says, which is why I wanted some opinions.

So, do you have favorite training methods? I've taken basic classes with Star & clicker training with Rosie (which I hated), Sherman was an angel & didn't need further training, but I need a little help with Jack. He's pretty well behaved overall, but there's a weird dynamic going on between him & Star. He's very headstrong, competitive, and the biggest problem is that he is aggresive towards smaller dogs at the dogpark. It could just be very physical rough husky-style, but it's hard to say. The little dogs don't think so, they freak out. So I haven't been able to let him run off-leash to burn off some of that energy.

I have contacted a couple local trainers but haven't heard anything back yet. Thought if I found dvd's of some good lessons on basic training it would help me cope with him better.

[Cinder & Smoke]

So, do you have favorite training methods?

I have contacted a couple local trainers but haven't heard anything back yet.

... some good lessons on basic training it would help me cope with him better.

Pat ~

Look in the local *Yeller Pages* under "DOG Training (clubs, associations)" or
"DOG Obedience" headings ...
Around here and around Pittsburgh, there are "non-profit training CLUBS" who advertise
in the Yellow Pages and often put Flyers or even price lists out in places like Pet Shops and
Vet Offices. You usually have the option of just paying for basic classes OR
Joining the Association/Club as a member - getting a discount on classes and events.

Most classes are for small (10-15 max) Dogs & Hoomins; the dogs work on social skills
while the Moms or Dads listen to the Trainer - who's teaching the Hoomins.
Then every few minutes you try out the drill with Fido ...
but promising the Trainer and Yourself that you're going to *practice* with Fido every day
as "homework" before the next week's class.

Most "clubs" have LOTS of experienced Trainers who can be hired at reasonable fees
to provide one-on-one training if you like.

[crow_noir]

I REALLY liked the author of The Other End of the Leash. ...problem is that the book didn't give many actual training tips... just mostly insight into the dog's mind. Or rather humans' misunderstanding of the dog's mind and what actually goes on in the typical human brain.

She lives in WI and is a professional consultant. (Heard she has a darn good radio show too.) (Doesn't do any of us a darn bit of good though, her being in WI. )

Better not tell Koli about Jack's behavior. She might call him up and ask if he wants a "running" partner. (More like a partner in crime.)

[Giselle]

That would be Patricia McConnell. I love her; she is a true pioneer in the science of dog behavior.

If I'm not mistaken, Huskies tend to have a pretty high prey drive, right? Additionally, I *think* Jack is pretty young. Combine a high prey drive with high energy with a wide open space with small dogs, and you've got a perfect recipe for disaster. This is why I can't let Ivy associate with small dogs, either. At home, she's fine with my Peke, but dogs play without thinking. In a perfect world, every dog park would have separate sections for small/big dogs.

[crow_noir]

Yes, that's her. Thank you!!!

Many Huskies have a high prey drive. Not all mind you, but many.

Or you could have my favorite dog park's view of a perfect world... where dogs of all sizes get along beautifully! and they do there. (Then you come back down to reality and you have the local dog park that had the forethought to put in divided sections. More often than not though the small dog side is used for the dogs less likely to get along with other dogs. I like the idea of the time out pen that the Findlay dog park has.)

That would be Patricia McConnell. I love her; she is a true pioneer in the science of dog behavior.

If I'm not mistaken, Huskies tend to have a pretty high prey drive, right? Additionally, I *think* Jack is pretty young. Combine a high prey drive with high energy with a wide open space with small dogs, and you've got a perfect recipe for disaster. This is why I can't let Ivy associate with small dogs, either. At home, she's fine with my Peke, but dogs play without thinking. In a perfect world, every dog park would have separate sections for small/big dogs.

[Blackrose]

That would be Patricia McConnell. I love her; she is a true pioneer in the science of dog behavior.

If I'm not mistaken, Huskies tend to have a pretty high prey drive, right? Additionally, I *think* Jack is pretty young. Combine a high prey drive with high energy with a wide open space with small dogs, and you've got a perfect recipe for disaster. This is why I can't let Ivy associate with small dogs, either. At home, she's fine with my Peke, but dogs play without thinking. In a perfect world, every dog park would have separate sections for small/big dogs.

I LOVE Patricia McConnell. "The Other End of the Leash" was an extreamly good book. Even thought it focuses on dog behavior and not training, you need to know about dog behavior before you can really become a good trainer.

Another good book is "Don't Shoot the Dog!" Can't remember who wrote it. It is a book about positive training meathods, whether they be for your dog, husband, children, or chicken. Also an extreamly good book that really gives you an insight on how animals (and people) learn.