I just have anothe comment to make. Dixieland Dancer, I agree with you that the "pop and choke" method is not neccessary. I was taught that in the puppy classes I went to and of course had to do them. When the novice class was over I went to another pup school that used "possitive" methods and found that Deisel responded alot better. I have never used the pop and choke method on Phoebe. I use treats and just position them when I want them to do something. I have read alot on the clicker method, could I start using that with Deisel and Phoebe or are they too old and would I maybe confuse them now with the changing of my teaching?