Banned from grad for senior prank

[catnapper]

Let me know how you feel in 20 years.

I often wonder what some people will think if they ever return to their threads here in 20 years.

I think the trouble here lies in the feeling of invincibility we've fostered in kids today. Don't tell them "no" as a child because you might hurt their confidence. Don't tell them they're wrong or you might hamper their creativity. Great, now we're stuck with a bunch of creative kids with cockiness off the scales. They don't think any law or rule can touch t hem. They'll get out of it by being charming. If that fails, mommy and daddy will come to the rescue.

My husband had an issue one afternoon with kids in his class. What they did wasn't as important to how they reacted when he told them to remain in their seats and focus on their books. One told him point-blank to "f*@%-off" and hubby sent him to the vice principal. 10 minutes later the kid was back WITHOUT a detention because the school is overwhelmed with bigger issues. They see they can lip off without repercussions so they try bigger acts of defiance thinking they can get away with it. Then one day he goes one step too far and is banned from graduation, he starts crying foul play.

Fast forward from the incident where the kid mouthed off to today. The same kid who told hubby to "f*@%-off" was banned from their schools' 8th grade graduation ceremony because he misbehaved with the wrong person watching, and that person decided to make the kid responsible for his actions by removing him from the ceremony. His mom was there, outside sceaming her head off because her precious son who never got into trouble wasn't allowed to walk in the ceremony. This boy who "never got in trouble" was ALWAYS in the principal's office. Always getting calls home with warnings. Just because he never actually got suspensions or many detenisons doesn;t mean he wasn't ever in trouble.

Funny how I read this last week and a VERY similar situation occured to hubby's student today!

[sparks19]

I think the trouble here lies in the feeling of invincibility we've fostered in kids today. Don't tell them "no" as a child because you might hurt their confidence. Don't tell them they're wrong or you might hamper their creativity. Great, now we're stuck with a bunch of creative kids with cockiness off the scales. They don't think any law or rule can touch t hem. They'll get out of it by being charming. If that fails, mommy and daddy will come to the rescue.

!

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

They can't play tag or what ever other game cause someone might feel excluded or have their feelings hurt or fall down and go boom..... you can't hold kids back a grade if they are not progressing (although I do NOT see how pushing them ahead a grade to harder material helps them one bit) You can't give kids a failing grade because it hurts their feelings or embarrasses them.....

Basically you can't discipline kids anymore AT ALL. and kids KNOW it. And this goes for parents too.... you give your kid a swat on the butt and someone see's it and reports you for ABUSE.....

[Lady's Human]

You can't discipline kids anymore?

Damn.

And to think all this time the last 5 years that's exactly what I've been doing with my daughter.

[sparks19]

You can't discipline kids anymore?

Damn.

And to think all this time the last 5 years that's exactly what I've been doing with my daughter.

You better hope no one sees you.... or they will report you to the hurt feelings police

I'm telling ya man... it happens all the time.

I remember in my hometown there was a guy at the mall with his two kids. I believe they were about 5 and 3 or something close to that anyway.... this was a few years ago. Anyway the younger child was climbing into the car and the older child came running over and slammed the car door and the little boys fingers got slammed in the door. So the father gave the little girl a whomp on the butt.... big deal right? Well someone saw this... called childrens aid and there was a big to do about him smacking his daughter on the butt. It was all over in the papers and they "tracked" this story while the childrens aid dealt with the situation. WTF?????!!!!! A smack on the butt is abuse and warrants the childrens aid? Good thing they are so worried about these kids whose parents are actually trying to raise them properly instead of these kids that are really suffering REAL abuse.

But yes Catnapper.... I hear it all the time with my nieces and nephews being in school..... no red.... no X's.... no one is wrong everyone is always right.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Dear god will people ever stop waxing poetic about "back in their day?" Today, unlike many years ago, many teaching strategies are based on empirical evidence and research. Giving students the correct answer, instead of simply telling them they are wrong without providing the correct answer, is a learning strategy. I would rather get a test back with the right answers, so I know how to change them, instead of just getting a useless piece of paper slashed with red ink.

Just because something is different than what it used to be like doesn't mean it's bad. People like to pretend that the world is the worst it's ever been- and in many ways it is, like global warming and people still living like it's 1950 and we don't know how harmful certain behaviors are when we really do. But in many ways society is better. There is less violent crime than ever, less teen pregnancies, LESS problems with youth.

I also think it's terribly hypocritical to tell teenagers on one hand to buck up and "live in the real world" and on the other give them a condescending lecture about how they are not adults. Fine, if teenagers are not adults, then don't expect them to act like it. I think people expect teens to act a certain way, so they do.

As far as the kid with the trays goes, all he's being denied is walking down to get his diploma. So what? What kind of punishment is that even? He still gets to graduate. I don't understand what the big deal is.

[Cataholic]

Dear god will people ever stop waxing poetic about "back in their day?" Today, unlike many years ago, many teaching strategies are based on empirical evidence and research. Giving students the correct answer, instead of simply telling them they are wrong without providing the correct answer, is a learning strategy. I would rather get a test back with the right answers, so I know how to change them, instead of just getting a useless piece of paper slashed with red ink.

I, for one, do not consider my comments "waxing poetically". However, they are from 20 plus years of post high school experience. Many times, with age, comes wisdom. Not always, but, many times. So, for some of us, offering a <gasp> mature attitude is nothing more than, in shortened form, "Hey, grow up". Educating, preaching, showing, illustrating, whatever comfortable word one uses, is what one gets when one posts a "can you believe this" post on a public message board.

Back in my day, there was much more respect for 'authority' in whatever form you put it- police, teachers, parents. Take a ten minute walk in any mall and tell me you don't see that for yourself. As for the comment to teen pregnancy, I would wager a bet it is because of more widely available forms of protection, better education as to sex, etc., rather than some comment on the status of the (American) world today. As for less violence? Where do you see that? Certainly not in the mass tragedies that have haunted this country since Columbine. Certainly not in the criminal justice system that is full of teen defendants. There are more alternative high schools in this country now than ever before- all the cater to those that can't pass in the more traditional sense.

As for getting a paper back with a red "x" on it, versus a more friendly written reason for the incorrect attitude, there is a middle ground. How about the student look up the right answer him/herself? There is some research that suggests the many different ways we receive the material can better cement it into our memories- hearing it, writing it, reading/seeing it, reiterating it. So, to somehow suggest it is incumbent upon the teacher to give it to the student, without putting some responsibility upon the student, isn't really 'teaching' is it?

I also think it's terribly hypocritical to tell teenagers on one hand to buck up and "live in the real world" and on the other give them a condescending lecture about how they are not adults. Fine, if teenagers are not adults, then don't expect them to act like it. I think people expect teens to act a certain way, so they do.

I believe many people were speaking in more casual ways- the word teen COULD very well be a 19 year old, a legal adult. But, a 14 or 16 year old is not an adult, I agree. Does this mean you feel there is no accountability for someone under the age of 18? Or, that some lightswitch suddenly flips at 18, and the person leaves his childish ways behind? There is a gradation process, I believe. (Some never reaching it, of course, and some reaching it much earlier that believable). But, to somehow fail to mention the 'right' way, just cause someone is young seems irresponsible. I tell my 2 year old all the time the way things should be done. I don't expect him to comply, fully understand, but, I still shoulder this responsibility.

As far as the kid with the trays goes, all he's being denied is walking down to get his diploma. So what? What kind of punishment is that even? He still gets to graduate. I don't understand what the big deal is.

This seems kind of contradictory to your earlier writings.

[sparks19]

Back in my day, there was much more respect for 'authority' in whatever form you put it- police, teachers, parents. Take a ten minute walk in any mall and tell me you don't see that for yourself. .

While this is very true and I cannot often believe the language coming out of kids these days.... I know that I was not always a perfect child but I often say "Im glad I never behaved like that" but the truth is I probably did sometimes.

As for there being respect for authority in your day..... That may be true for YOU.... but I know there are many people your age and older that do not respect authority now nor did they back then. Even my dad got the strap a time or two at school for being a bugger lol. Everyone has their moments when they are less than perfect.

In fact, some of the rudest people I have ever met are the "older back in my day" crowd. So while it is easy to sit back and say "I'm glad I never behaved like that. I always respected everyone." (even I find myself saying the same thing and I am only 26) It likely isn't true that you were ALWAYS respectful and never had less than top notch moments.

I don't think it is any worse to be totally rude and ignorant to an authority figure or just your average joe. Being rude is being rude, I don't think it matter who you are speaking to.

LOL and totally off topic.... I love how you referred to yourself as an old bat.... that's funny. I love that term and I hope I can be an old bat one day

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Back in my day, there was much more respect for 'authority' in whatever form you put it- police, teachers, parents. Take a ten minute walk in any mall and tell me you don't see that for yourself. As for the comment to teen pregnancy, I would wager a bet it is because of more widely available forms of protection, better education as to sex, etc., rather than some comment on the status of the (American) world today. As for less violence? Where do you see that? Certainly not in the mass tragedies that have haunted this country since Columbine. Certainly not in the criminal justice system that is full of teen defendants. There are more alternative high schools in this country now than ever before- all the cater to those that can't pass in the more traditional sense.

Not knowing you personally, I have no idea what decade you grew up in. However, many people in my parent's generation started a profound lack of disrespect for authority. Or did you read a different history about the 1960's? Since when did people then have a respect for most kinds of authority? Some of it was for good reason- consider the civil rights movement, for example. Some of it was fashion, popular culture, the throws of youth, whatever you want to call it with phrases like "don't trust anyone over 30." There were mass demonstrations, riots, and any number of events that could be considered "disrespectful." I fail to see how today's youth is more "disrespectful" than that.

As for less violent crime, look here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm, you will see that most kinds of violent crime peaked in the early 1990's. Not only was there more crime then- and it has more or less steadily declined- but we have a higher population now. And sex education is a good thing, lowered teen pregnancies show that providing teens with information that actually works- not just using the same half- information that their parents learned.

As for getting a paper back with a red "x" on it, versus a more friendly written reason for the incorrect attitude, there is a middle ground. How about the student look up the right answer him/herself? There is some research that suggests the many different ways we receive the material can better cement it into our memories- hearing it, writing it, reading/seeing it, reiterating it. So, to somehow suggest it is incumbent upon the teacher to give it to the student, without putting some responsibility upon the student, isn't really 'teaching' is it?

You are assuming that 1) teachers have the time to make sure their students actually look this stuff up and 2) students will continue learning the material after their test is over. Many current educational laws (i.e. No Child Left Behind) encourage schools to teach to the test- they have to in order to get funding. Therefore, whether or not a student learns the information or not is irrelevant to getting funding. Only rote memorization is required. I'm certainly not advocating this, in fact I think it's setting our education further behind the developed world. However, providing students with an answer is certainly more helpful then just telling them it's wrong.

I believe many people were speaking in more casual ways- the word teen COULD very well be a 19 year old, a legal adult. But, a 14 or 16 year old is not an adult, I agree. Does this mean you feel there is no accountability for someone under the age of 18? Or, that some lightswitch suddenly flips at 18, and the person leaves his childish ways behind? There is a gradation process, I believe. (Some never reaching it, of course, and some reaching it much earlier that believable). But, to somehow fail to mention the 'right' way, just cause someone is young seems irresponsible. I tell my 2 year old all the time the way things should be done. I don't expect him to comply, fully understand, but, I still shoulder this responsibility.

Of course I think there should be accountability. But telling the kid he can't attend his graduation ceremony is kind of arbitrary. Why not make him work in the cafeteria to pay for the damage, for example- a lesson that is directly related to the crime, something that can actually teach a lesson instead of playing some kind of power struggle. I'm sure the kid isn't suffering because he can't go- most likely his parents are more upset than him.

My remark about teens was that people are simultaneously telling teens to "grow up" and then remarking on how immature they are. How are they supposed to do that if they have constant reminders about how unworthy they are? I see people on this site belittle younger members all the time, and often dismiss their viewpoints because they are still in high school. In my experience, age does not equal wisdom. I work with children and teens, and often times I see more "common sense" in them then I ever see in other adults.

Besides, if adults have so much more wisdom and propriety than teens, why are they making petty comments that I see all the time? Why would they even feel the need to say how much smarter and world-wise they are; you would think that would be self-evident. Even subtle remarks like "tell me what you think in 10 years" are condescending jabs that are completely ridiculous. It really annoys me that people assume someone else will feel the same as they do just due to the passing of time. We all have our own unique experiences that allow us to have unique opinions. Teens should be allowed to express their views without criticism like that.

[caseysmom]

Dear god will people ever stop waxing poetic about "back in their day?" Today, unlike many years ago, many teaching strategies are based on empirical evidence and research. Giving students the correct answer, instead of simply telling them they are wrong without providing the correct answer, is a learning strategy. I would rather get a test back with the right answers, so I know how to change them, instead of just getting a useless piece of paper slashed with red ink.

Just because something is different than what it used to be like doesn't mean it's bad. People like to pretend that the world is the worst it's ever been- and in many ways it is, like global warming and people still living like it's 1950 and we don't know how harmful certain behaviors are when we really do. But in many ways society is better. There is less violent crime than ever, less teen pregnancies, LESS problems with youth.

I also think it's terribly hypocritical to tell teenagers on one hand to buck up and "live in the real world" and on the other give them a condescending lecture about how they are not adults. Fine, if teenagers are not adults, then don't expect them to act like it. I think people expect teens to act a certain way, so they do.

As far as the kid with the trays goes, all he's being denied is walking down to get his diploma. So what? What kind of punishment is that even? He still gets to graduate. I don't understand what the big deal is.

I loved this post, I get tired of all the teen bashing on here, I think there are some pretty mature fine individuals on this site that happen to be teens.

[K9soul]

I didn't see any teen bashing. I have a lot of respect for people no matter what age if they can act respectful and with an awareness of others' feelings. I simply feel someone shouldn't be "let off the hook" and excused for any behavior that harms property or is damaging no matter WHAT age they are. It should never be acceptable.

I agree with everything Johanna stated in her last post on this one. And I do not believe I behave in a derogatory manner to anyone here based on age.

[Alysser]

I loved this post, I get tired of all the teen bashing on here, I think there are some pretty mature fine individuals on this site that happen to be teens.

I agree, thank you pembroke_corgi and caseysmom. JUST because teenagers are younger then adults doesn't mean they are stupid. I hate how a couple of bad apples ruin the reputation for the rest of us. I am also sick of the constant bashing, it needs to stop.

[catnapper]

Hey, that reminds me. I was helping hubby grade some papers this year. It was all multiple choice. Basically, I went down a row, A B B A C D A B D D A, etc. If they answered B when it should have been C, I was supposed to mark it wrong. No X's. No slashes. Just the letter it should have been. And I got "yelled" at for using red ink, so I just used purple . Apparently red is mean and could hurt their feelings -- dude, you got it wrong! Do ya want me to hand you a twinkie to make you feel better? Wrong is wrong, right is right. I learned from my mistakes. Nobody sugar coated them. I got red X's. I grew up with a good sense of self. Heck, red's my favorite color!

[crow_noir]

Re: Red ink.

Fear the red. Fear it!

Yeah... you don't want to see the red ink on your paper study harder! One should be so grateful as to get the correct answer marked so that you can learn.

Red ink might hurt their feelings. Jeesh!!!

[cali]

this reminded me of an incident here, a girl was suspended for 10 days for bring a plastc toy gun to school to play "cops and robbers" with her friend during lunch hour, the toy was put away for the rest of the day. there was a huge outcry of people dclairing that she got what she deserved. what pissed me off the most was the same day this one happend, another incident happed at another school, a kid brought a PELLET gun to school, took it outside at recess and began shooting unsuspecting classmates with the pellet gun. this kids punishment? 1 day suspension and not one single person objected to what the kid did or his punishment. the punishment for that pellet gun should have been WAAAYYY more severe then the punishment for a toy in a girl backpack,maybe if people paid attention to the people that actually needed help schools would not need to be adding securitys guards and metal detectors, instead the heavy punishments goes to the petty "crimes", while the serious "crimes" get only a slap on the wrist..if anything.

[ratdogg]

a pellet gun is not comparable at all to a plastic toy gun...just curious but did the toy gun incident happen in the suburbs? I live in a suburb of SF and people here think they are hot stuff even though they aren't really that wealthy or distinguished.