Body armor for American troops

[RICHARD]

I'm sure this guy knew he would be quoted, but he didn't volunteer
this information, he only responed to a question about whether he wore
it or not. He said he & his staff did.

Thanks for bringing that up..I got too far into the topic to include that tidbit.

[Lady's Human]

Just to clear up my above comments:

If the General (didn't see the broadcast, don't know how many stars he has on his collar) is wearing something that his troops aren't allowed to, it tells me two things, neither of which are good:

1) His troops are less important to him than his own safety. He's violating regs, but instead of using the horsepower on his collar to change the regs, he's setting himself above his troops.

2) He doesn't care about the regs, and doesn't enforce them. Once a military leader starts picking which regs to enforce and which regs to ignore, it sets up a BAD situation. Hell, the General doesn't like reg (x) so he doesn't enforce it, I'm going to do the same with reg (y). It blurs the lines of command authority, which are set up by regs. I've bent my share of regs over 20 years, but you have to be careful how and why you do it.


I've seen a lot of debate over Dragonskin armor. Not being privy to the tests, I have no idea whether it meets all the specs laid out by the military or not. If it did in fact fail a test in extreme heat, I'd be very wary about it, as fire and explosions are all to common on the battlefield. Consider a vehicle crew in a vehicle that gets hit by an IED in an ambush. First they have to escape a flaming vehicle (extreme heat) then in all likelihood they have to engage the insurgents who set the ambush. I'd be very wary about the second part if the plates in the Dragonskin can't take heat.

The other issue with Dragonskin is that the military made their choice (Interceptor IBA) based on cost, effectiveness, and the manufacturer's ability to supply the original order plus replacements. Part of the fiasco in the media (and it was mainly a media event, as opposed to reality, there was some truth to the reports, but it was about 60-70% hype) with the IBA was due to the manufacturer's inability to supply enough to go around. If you think for a second the Pentagon is going to go through that again you have another think coming.

To effectively deploy the DragonSkin in a manner that would be "approved" by the media you would have to come up with 300,000 sets BEFORE you started issuing it to the troops. otherwise you get into the whole issue of who gets it, who doesn't, and who's going to volunteer to get crucified in the media for making the decision.

[RICHARD]

If you get a chance check out the piece.

One thing about the IBA was it's failure at arouund four hits. The frame upon which the armor was mounted had clay mounted underneath to show the impact and deflection of the plates.

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If I remember correctly they used an armor piercing/incendiary round on the DS.it held up to that- The question of the DS holding up to a vehicle fire wasn't even broached!

DL also mentioned that there are CIA people using DS during their ops.

I see the problem with testing and then buying 300,000 sets, but nothing is too costly if it saves one life.

[lizbud]

I see the problem with testing and then buying 300,000 sets, but nothing is too costly if it saves one life.

It's red tape at it's worst. Contracts have already been made & it takes
a lot of personal "effort" to consider a change now. Vets are cheated in
their care & treatment here at home, but they should have the best available
when they are in the field. IMO.

[lizbud]

Richard,

Just happened to run across this interesting article. Lots of info here.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0524/p99s01-duts.html

[RICHARD]

Fox news did a 'round table' on the subject today.

I didn't see the whole thing but will try to find the text.

[Lady's Human]

The 20 pound difference between the vests is a HUGE issue, as an infantryman is already carrying about 40 pounds of equipment BEFORE the vest is added to the combat load. (Want to see the difference? Put 60 pounds in a backpack, walk around with it all day, and then after giving your body a while to recover, then try the same with 80 lbs. That weight doesn't even take in the extra 20 pounds that an RTO or a machine gunner is carrying.)

While the DoD procurement system is a bureaucratic maze at best, they do occasionally get some things right. The maker of Dragon Skin has been deeply embroiled in a PR campaign for about 2 years now to get the vests accepted, and the media is just making a mess out of it.