This is the last time.. Bye Baby:(

[.sarah]

I know what you're going through with the fighting. Luka and Mandy cannot be together unsupervised and can never play together or eat together. We have found it much easier to keep them seperate than to watch them 24/7 to make sure nothing provokes them. Sometimes we couldn't understand what started a fight. When I got bitten last August trying to break them up we decided it was best to keep them apart. Luckily for us the dogs understand the system. Luka stays with my parents and Mandy stays with me, and when we are all together Mandy is generally blocked off in the living room, or one of them is crated, outside, etc. Since we've been doing it so long it's become a routine for us and the dogs and it's working well, although it's still not ideal and I still worry sometimes ... like in a few weeks we are going to have to use pet sitters while we are out of town for my graduation and we are trying to find a way to take Luka with us so we don't have to worry about the pet sitters forgetting that they can't be together. It's stressful sometimes but I just can't imagine giving one of them up and I am so sorry you have to go through that.

[Callie]

I think, in your empathizing with both the humans and pets suffering in this thread, everyone has overlooked one fundamental issue. That issue is the FACT that the animal in question is not obedience trained to 'release!' or 'let go!' or "drop it!' on command. No one would've been bitten, except the first attacked dog, if the dog had been obedience trained properly.

To give such an aggressive animal to a 'one dog home' does a disservice to both the new owner and the dog. Get him obedience trained...NOW! If he cannot be trained and remains hostile and aggressive, then for gosh sakes, don't foist this pitiful creature off on someone else. Put him out of his misery...suffer once for having to do the deed, and be done with it.

If you think an overly aggressive animal is happy, think again...they're living in fear and hatred. Even if they've never been human aggressive (yet), a child seeing animals fighting, and perhaps killing, one another can traumatize the child for life. Get real, folks.

We all know that animals escape even the best of confines if they're determined enough. To keep a potentially dangerous animal without doing all possible to disarm the dangers, is irresponsible. No, giving him to someone else, even one with no other dogs, doesn't cut it.

Sorry, folks, I just couldn't let this go on. I love all animals and I believe in giving the best possible care but, when it comes to danger to others (even other people's pets) I don't believe it's love of the animal to allow it to live and possibly breed and pass on those characteristics. One down and how many others to live joyously and unafraid as the decent companions they should be and usually are?

With much sympathy for your plight and prayers that it will not continue and even escalate, as is often the case.

Callie

[DrKym]

I think, in your empathizing with both the humans and pets suffering in this thread, everyone has overlooked one fundamental issue. That issue is the FACT that the animal in question is not obedience trained to 'release!' or 'let go!' or "drop it!' on command. No one would've been bitten, except the first attacked dog, if the dog had been obedience trained properly.

To give such an aggressive animal to a 'one dog home' does a disservice to both the new owner and the dog. Get him obedience trained...NOW! If he cannot be trained and remains hostile and aggressive, then for gosh sakes, don't foist this pitiful creature off on someone else. Put him out of his misery...suffer once for having to do the deed, and be done with it.

If you think an overly aggressive animal is happy, think again...they're living in fear and hatred. Even if they've never been human aggressive (yet), a child seeing animals fighting, and perhaps killing, one another can traumatize the child for life. Get real, folks.

We all know that animals escape even the best of confines if they're determined enough. To keep a potentially dangerous animal without doing all possible to disarm the dangers, is irresponsible. No, giving him to someone else, even one with no other dogs, doesn't cut it.

Sorry, folks, I just couldn't let this go on. I love all animals and I believe in giving the best possible care but, when it comes to danger to others (even other people's pets) I don't believe it's love of the animal to allow it to live and possibly breed and pass on those characteristics. One down and how many others to live joyously and unafraid as the decent companions they should be and usually are?

With much sympathy for your plight and prayers that it will not continue and even escalate, as is often the case.

Callie

Wow .....................have you read this thread? and sorry but if I went by that creed , then my own Rusty would be dead now. he is child agressive, dominant and untrainable...........................

I may want to tell the 10 yr old he sleeps with, and the agility class he goes too, and I should mention it to the people he licks to death that visit.

He was found to be Hypothyroid and also a secondary infection to a tooth issue at 9 months when he came here as PTS. Along with the fact that he is Von Willebrands +

not all aggressive animals are truly aggressive, Rusty still won't and will probaly never handle another male neutered or not. He is amazing with "sisters" and cats and guinea Pigs and birds and rats and anything else I show him. He however has issues with other males.

And he will never deal with any male being friends with Mom. Although he will drop on command and release also. He has achieved his CC . So no I cannot and won't accept that it is an issue. All animals are worth redemption. Even those that seem beyond it, it just takes a few more humans to make it right.

Just my thoughts

kym

[Hellow]

Have you considered aggression pills?

[applesmom]

Well said Callie! To rehome a dog aggressive dog is to avoid one's own responsibility!

[wolfsoul]

I'm sorry, but this is not a "training issue." This is inherited aggression. It was not allowed to develop -- it just came out of nowhere, and no amount of "obedience training" will turn most high drive dogs away from it's prey. Talk to owners on PT who have had dogs kill their cats, including myself -- and some who have had their own dogs kill their own cats. It was never an obedience issue. Telling a dog to "let go" of it's prey when it's adrenaline is pumping so fast it can not hear or think or see or smell or feel anything will not have any affect. I own high drive dogs, I have trained high drive dogs. I have dealt with working sharpness that will leave you bitten and bruised. Add aggression into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster that no amount of training will control entirely. This does not mean the dog should die. It just means it should not be allowed into certain situations. Hence why Baby is now wearing a muzzle 24/7. You can not always train out a behaviour but there are other ways to avoid dangerous behaviours without unnessecarily putting the dog to sleep. Just as I have friends who avoid having their dogs with cats, with men, with children, etc etc etc.

[critter crazy]

I am not trying to start anything, but how is keeping a dog in a muzzle 24/7, good for the dog??? Seems pretty cruel to me. I definitely think placing the dog, in a home without any other dogs, is a heck of a lot better, than it being in a muzzle 24/7. As long as the new owner is fully aware of the dogs behavior issues, and is willing to fully take on the Responsibilities. I would not enjoy seeing my dog in a muzzle. It would just kill me.

[wolfsoul]

I am not trying to start anything, but how is keeping a dog in a muzzle 24/7, good for the dog??? Seems pretty cruel to me. I definitely think placing the dog, in a home without any other dogs, is a heck of a lot better, than it being in a muzzle 24/7. As long as the new owner is fully aware of the dogs behavior issues, and is willing to fully take on the Responsibilities. I would not enjoy seeing my dog in a muzzle. It would just kill me.

The muzzle still allows Baby to pant, drink, and basically go about her normal life. She can even take food and treats from your hand. She is just not able to open her mouth wide to bite. There is nothing cruel about it -- she is still able to do everything normally -- it would be more cruel to the other dogs to leave it off. She acts happy and normal.

[tikeyas_mom]

Baby really doesn't seem to mind wearing the muzzle on a regular basis. She does try to get it off once in a while, which is to be expected. When she is fed (by her self no other dogs around) she gets the muzzle taken off..

As well as when she goes to bed. Since shes been sick with that soft tissue infection she has been ordered to have at least a nap a day, and she sleeps through the whole night WITHOUT the muzzle on. So its not like she lives her WHOLe existance with the muzzle on, there really is no need for the muzzle when the other FEMALE dogs arnt around.

And Callie, that post you made, really doesn't apply what-so-ever to this delicate situation.

[Karen]

This thread is out of date, Callie. If you read the "gas gangrene" thread, you'll see that, after nearly losing Baby because of her illness, they realized they'd miss her too much, and loved her too much to let her go. When Jynelle and her dog's move out pretty soon, Baby will be stayingwhewre she is with Jynelle's parents, thereby removing the conflict between she and Tikeya.