Battle of the Headcollars - Halti vs. Gentle Leader

[theterrierman]

I don't like head collars at all and unless you have to, I'd really opt not to use one. I've heard of too many accidents happening with them to feel safe using any. Have you thought of trying a no-pull harness? Those are supposed to work really well for pullers.

If you do choose to go for a head collar, which one is best really depends on your dog. You'd have to try both on him and see which fits better and such.

What type of accidents if you don't mind me asking. PM me if it's graphic. I was considering that exact harness, but I'd never seen one used, and I knew headcollars worked well. Do you know anyone who's had success with one?

[NicoleLJ]

Halti's, just like any training aid, can have it's good points and bad. It is not for every dog or owner. Sheena loves her halti and even works with it on. Very few have mistaken it as a muzzle because we live in ranching and farming country so most people recognize it for what it is. Luca on the other hand never really took to it.

The trick is to find a training aid, collar or harness that not only works for you but also for the dog. Good luck with what ever you decide to use.
Nicole

[cali]

I like the Haltie, Misty has one, and I used it as a training tool, NOT a bandaid solution, the only time I use it now is when the girl that walks my dogs takes Misty, she maywalk fine for me now, but she still gets exited and yanks when she sees a park, and a little 11 year old CANNOT handle that lol. when it comes to Halie or GL, I am Haltie all the way, I tried a GL once....Misty had it off it seconds, because it lacks cheek straps, and Misty knows how to pull to get the thing off her nose, so without the cheekstraps she mid as well be wearing a normal collar.

[mike001]

I like the Haltie, Misty has one, and I used it as a training tool, NOT a bandaid solution, the only time I use it now is when the girl that walks my dogs takes Misty, she maywalk fine for me now, but she still gets exited and yanks when she sees a park, and a little 11 year old CANNOT handle that lol. when it comes to Halie or GL, I am Haltie all the way, I tried a GL once....Misty had it off it seconds, because it lacks cheek straps, and Misty knows how to pull to get the thing off her nose, so without the cheekstraps she mid as well be wearing a normal collar.

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn. You stated that you use it only for the 11 yr old girl to walk your dog because she still gets excited and pulls. if the dog was really trained that 11 yr old wouldn't have a problem with her pulling, hence the Halti is simply a restraint. Out here people using haltis use them for uncontrollable or aggressive dogs only. If a dog is properly trained, it walks obediently on a flat collar or at least on a choke chain. This is why I love the prongs, there is no yanking, pulling or misbehavior, and the dog can think and learn. In my opinion, the halti simply replaces the muzzle for safety reasons.

[NicoleLJ]

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn. You stated that you use it only for the 11 yr old girl to walk your dog because she still gets excited and pulls. if the dog was really trained that 11 yr old wouldn't have a problem with her pulling, hence the Halti is simply a restraint. Out here people using haltis use them for uncontrollable or aggressive dogs only. If a dog is properly trained, it walks obediently on a flat collar or at least on a choke chain. This is why I love the prongs, there is no yanking, pulling or misbehavior, and the dog can think and learn. In my opinion, the halti simply replaces the muzzle for safety reasons.

Mike this is false. Just because a dog and handler use a Gentle leader or halti does not in any way mean they are not trained. And it by no means is only for aggressive or uncontroled dogs. Sheena walks perfectly on a flat collar. The reason I use the halti is not for control. One it is part of her dress for when she is working. She knows that it is time to work not play or visit. Another reason is it gives me an idea, without looking at her of where her head is turned or looking. Because of my disability and my panic issues, esspecially around certian types of men(thanks to a past rape) she can alert me to someone coming up behind me in this way without me even having to turn or she having to change postition. There are many reason people continue to use them after the dog is trained. When I go out just for a walk around the block, to the park, flyball or agility or so on I have her on a regular collar. And guess what, she behaves perfectly then too on just the buckle.

Saying that it does not train the dogs or stereo typing people and their dogs who use them by saying they are aggresive and or uncontrolable it wrong, far fetch and totally in accurate. That would be like me saying all users or prong collars are inhumane, cruel and hate their dogs and the only reason they use a prong is because they can not control their dog with kind proper methods. Do I hate prongs. No it is a training aid just like a halti. Is saying bad things about teh aid and the people or dogs that use it correct? Nope. In some cases for both aids maybe but defiantely not the majority. Stereo typing anyone is wrong.
Nicole

[critter crazy]

I use a Halti on Duke. It is so far the only thing that works for him! He is an angel on the Halti lead, and even my 7yr old can walk him now. It took a little over a week of training, but it works fabulous. I could not imagine walking my dog without one now!

[mike001]

I use a Halti on Duke. It is so far the only thing that works for him! He is an angel on the Halti lead, and even my 7yr old can walk him now. It took a little over a week of training, but it works fabulous. I could not imagine walking my dog without one now!

Again it proves what I have just said about haltis. Critter crazy you stated that you could not imagine walking your dog without the halti and that your 7 yr old could now walk the dog. Why would you not be able to get the same result with a regular collar if the dog was in fact trained and not just restrained? That's exactly what I meant when I said the dogs don't really learn, they adapt because they have no choice. My shepherd can be walked on a flat collar by my 10 yr old grandaughter with no problem. I would not consider my dog trained if I had to strap a Halti on my dog. You posted a picture of your dog wearing the halti. Look closely at where the pressure points are...uncomfy?...you better believe it.

[Aspen and Misty]

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn.

I have to disagree and here is why:

Let me start off by saying that my biggest pet peeve is dog's that pull on a leash. It drives me NUTS and gets me infuriated within a minute of dealing with them. My dog Nova is that way and I used the Halti to help her learn how to walk good on a leash.

This is what we did:
For 2 weeks Nova and I walked with the Halti on. This allowed her to learn what I wanted. I taught her to walk by my side and she learned that if she walked nicely by my side she would have full motion of her head. If I had used just a regular leash there would have been a power struggle and I would have been extremely frustrated seconds into dealing with her. The halti made it so she didn't pull and she was learning all at the same time. Eventually when I felt she was ready I put the halti on for the first 2 minutes of the walk to allow her to calm down. Once she was calmed down I removed the Halti and walked her on her regular collar. It took a little bit, and a lot of patience from me, but she finally got it. She now walks like a pro and I no longer have to use the Halti. The halti can and was designed to be used as a training tool. If used properly it can work wonders. There were other solutions to Nova's problem but the halti made training bearable for the both of us.


Ashley

[crow_noir]

Again, all dogs are different. If you use it properly you can still train using a Halti (or GL.) People put them on the dog and get lazy. The don't train... they just let the Halit control the dog. I think i used the Halti on Koli for two months. I taught her to not pull so darn much. How? I was committed to using the right timing with pull, praise, and commands. You can NOT forget to continue training every second you have that dog on leash. Just because you've hidden the symptoms, doesn't mean you found a cure. People tend to forget that the second their shoulder is no longer being yanked out of socket.

I'm sure there are some dogs that would just NEVER learn to quit pulling, but i think it's an abomination to say you can't train a dog when using the Halti or GL.

Cali you've just explained the dowside of haltis or Gentle leaders. The dogs just don't learn. You stated that you use it only for the 11 yr old girl to walk your dog because she still gets excited and pulls. if the dog was really trained that 11 yr old wouldn't have a problem with her pulling, hence the Halti is simply a restraint. Out here people using haltis use them for uncontrollable or aggressive dogs only. If a dog is properly trained, it walks obediently on a flat collar or at least on a choke chain. This is why I love the prongs, there is no yanking, pulling or misbehavior, and the dog can think and learn. In my opinion, the halti simply replaces the muzzle for safety reasons.

[PonyPup]

I like the Haltie, Misty has one, and I used it as a training tool, NOT a bandaid solution, the only time I use it now is when the girl that walks my dogs takes Misty, she maywalk fine for me now, but she still gets exited and yanks when she sees a park, and a little 11 year old CANNOT handle that lol. when it comes to Halie or GL, I am Haltie all the way, I tried a GL once....Misty had it off it seconds, because it lacks cheek straps, and Misty knows how to pull to get the thing off her nose, so without the cheekstraps she mid as well be wearing a normal collar.

Actually, the reason Misty had it off seconds was because you didn't fit the Gentle Leader properly. Headcollars don't really NEED cheek straps.
As for me, I like the Gentle Leader better, because it applies pressure to accupressure points, which calms the dogs down. Maybe Halti does that, too, but I still like GL better. GL is also adjustable, so you can have a custom fit.

[SemaviLady]

What type of accidents if you don't mind me asking. PM me if it's graphic. I was considering that exact harness, but I'd never seen one used, and I knew headcollars worked well. Do you know anyone who's had success with one?

I have a website upon which there is one page that is dedicated to the prong collar. One reader that visited was Bonnie Dalzell (Borzoi) who has done postmortems on dogs and has viewed the results of collar injuries. I'll quote part of what she says here -

As an anatomist and a serious breeder I obtained thorough postmortem reports on many of my Borzois after they passed on and I was surprised to find that a number of them had healed fractures of the lateral bones of the larynx. This sort of injury narrows the opening into the trachea and, in extreme cases, could also produce respiratory insufficiency at heavy exercise.

A lateral radiograph read by some one who knows what they are looking at can reveal these injuries in a living dog.

Haltis and Easy Leaders have the potential to severely injure a dog's neck in the case of an out of control dog who bucks on the Halti. Dogs do not have the massive neck ligamentation of horses and, while their necks are stronger than ours, they still can be injured, especially if suddenly pulled up and back. Haltis do have their place in control of a powerful dog, I regularly use one on one of my best lure coursing Borzoi who has injured his trachea from his enthusiastic attempts to get at the lure while we are waiting for him to have his turn to run. However one needs to be careful that the dog does not get up speed and run to the end of a long leash while in a Halti, because the leverage on the neck that can be exerted by a high speed Halti stop could be very damaging. I would not use one on a dog working on the high obstacles of an agility course because if the dog fell from the A-frame or the elevated walk and was jerked by the Halti it could be severely injured.

In addition I have observed that since Haltis do not deliver much correction, they are good for control but not training.

I have found that a useful tool for leash breaking long necked sighthound pups without neck injury is. . . read the rest here

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Have just "googled" prong collars because I have never seen one and

While I respect everyone's choices on this thread I can't see myself ever using one on Tobey or Archie. Having said that, I am going to put a bit more effort into getting the boys to walk "nicely" instead of just ambling along behind them

[mike001]

Like I said...while they might look barbaric they are much less damaging than chokers and even Gentle leaders or Haltis...IF they are used properly.
But you're absolutely right, hard work is the better choice of any collar.