Words well spoken...Recieved in Email

[Edwina's Secretary]

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws would have guns...just curious...the shooters in these (just to name a few)

Virginia Tech 04/16/07

Amish Country, PA

Wisconsin

Columbine High School

Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96

Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97!

Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97

Stam! p, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98

How many were criminals (before the infamous shooting)??????

If the existing laws are sufficient...and IF ONLY "they" would enforce those laws....

The guy in Virginia bought his gun legally. No exisiting law was broken or unenforced....

so the question is...which of these shootings was the result of convicted criminals or people who bought guns illegally???

Which of these would have been prevented if exisiting gun laws were enforced???

Is the answer all of them???...or nearly all of them???....(It certainly isn't Viriginia Tech!)

Or are these just the same tired arguments...smoke screens...knee-jerk emotional responses the gun lobby throws up every time there is a horrendous shooting because of the availablity of instruments of death in this country?

[Lady's Human]

Mr. Cho should not have been able to purchase either firearm. A Federal Law barring people with a history of mental illness was unenforced.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Mr. Cho should not have been able to purchase either firearm. A Federal Law barring people with a history of mental illness was unenforced.

Sorry...LH...but you are wrong. He did not meet the legal definition of mental illness required to cause a ban on purchasing an instrument of death!

[Lady's Human]

No, I'm not wrong. The only reason he could acquire the handguns was a loophole in the NICS law. Had his mental health situation been reported as required he would not have been able to purchase the handguns.

He also had to lie on the federal purchase form to purchase the weapons.

[Edwina's Secretary]

No, I'm not wrong. The only reason he could acquire the handguns was a loophole in the NICS law. Had his mental health situation been reported as required he would not have been able to purchase the handguns.

He also had to lie on the federal purchase form to purchase the weapons.

Yes, you are wrong...

Virginia state law on mental health disqualifications to firearms purchases, however, is worded slightly differently from the federal statute. So the form that Virginia courts use to notify state police about a mental health disqualification addresses only the state criteria, which list two potential categories that would warrant notification to the state police: someone who was “involuntarily committed” or ruled mentally “incapacitated.”[112] ”

Federal law defines adjudication as a mental defective to include "determination by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority" that as a result of mental illness, the person is a "danger to himself or others."[112] Because of gaps between federal and Virginia state laws, the state did not report Cho's legal status to the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and Cho's purchases were not prevented.[112] On April 30, 2007, Virginia Governor Timothy Kaine issued an executive order intended to close those reporting gaps.

Another loophole closed 32 lives too late.

And the other shootings?

[Lady's Human]

Those citations, however, completely disregard the purchase form questionnaire which Mr. Cho could not have answered truthfully and recieved the firearms. There were several issues brought up when the NICS law was implemented, mainly regarding state reporting requirements and making the database truly universal, but the law was ramrodded through the Congress unchanged.

[Edwina's Secretary]

So...what you are saying is the current laws are inadequate to prevent nutcases from purchasing instruments of death?

[Lady's Human]

Have you ever filled out the federal purchase form? It states quite clearly that court ordered psychiatric care is a disqualifier for purchase.

[Lady's Human]

Ceph, I know full well it is legal to purchase semi auto weapons. Every post I made about certain weapons being illegal was in reference to fully auto weapons, not semis. Hell, if semis were illegal I would be slightly illegal myself.

My comments about what happened at your school are based completely on media accounts of what happened, and pertain solely to the legalities involved. I wouldn't pretend to know the precise events, who, what where, how, or why, because media reporting is notoriously inaccurate.

I never claimed everyone in the US was a Christian, that was another poster.

[wombat2u2004]

Hi guys....

dont want to be rude...but neither of you knows diddley squat about what happened here at Virginia Tech....so it behooves you not to use it as an example until you have something other than media sources.

thought I would add some points :

1) banning guns isnt going to do diddley squat to stop the baddies from getting guns...there is a black market...and its there for the crazies because they are crazy enough to pay.

2) ES - you really want to ban guns? What happens if they do become illegal? the problem with things that are illegal...its hard to stop the people who supply them illegally....hec, look at weed and other drugs....they're banned too....and they are EVERYWHERE.

3) LH - it is legal to purchase semi-automatics...my buds have them..AR-15s and AKs. ES - no they havent shot anyone, nor will they in the future....if you exclude terrorists. When we go to the Range we are usually just out there to have fun...we take targets and have practice....which is nice...not going to lie because as a future Army Officer I would *love* to know how to shoot....there's just something about going into war unprepared that doesnt really appeal to me...makes me think of a girl whose last name was Lynch...and through the Army we only get the chance to shoot and qualify our M-16s once or twice a year.

4) I was the fat kid who always lost at dodgeball....I loved it anyway. I didnt need to win a whole bunch of games to give me confidence. My parents let me make my own decisons and I learned it that way...and I was still a good kid who got good grades and worked hard and didnt mess around.

5) there are cases in my home county of teachers not allowing their students to say prayers in class because it could offend someone...I think there are even cases of kids not allowed to wear religous paraphinelia such as pendants. Thats stupid...if seeing a cross or a star of David or hearing someone pray to themselves shakes you up that bad then you probably dont believe whatever it is you believe as strongly as you think. I am not saying the teacher leads the class in prayer...I have never seen this happen personally...but letting children say a prayer on their own should be fine.

6) LH - lol, we are not all christians...I am what I like to call confused...mom is Catholic...dad is Jewish...I am a Cashew (not horridly religious but very, *very* faithful)... I think you were trying to say civilized right

7) yup...once a gun nut always a gun nut...I like the idea of being able to carry a concealed weapon if I must in the future when I walk home through the dark dank streets of DC....call it violence if you will...I would like to think of it as personal safety....not all of us live in a safe environment. And to tell you the truth I honestly find enjoyment shooting my plinker at the targets...it takes concentration and thought and control...good mental exercise.

Thought I would add my thoughts.

A very good post Ceph, if I may say so.
You certainly have the ability to hit the nail right on the head.
Wom