Words well spoken...Recieved in Email

[sparks19]

This is an interesting thread. I'll keep reading it as people keep posting. And, just as a side note, I hated games like tag and dodgeball, I always felt small and meek and left out. I was always the last person chosen. The main reason for it was because I am physically small and I was also always the youngest in my class. But, honestly, that is part of growing up. I think it's ridiculous that they completely banned those sports from schools. With the obesity in children today, I'd be adding more sports, not taking them out.

As for prayers in schools, I'm all for "moment of silence" to pray or not pray to whatever God(s) you choose.

Good point. While schools can't and shouldn't be blamed for obesity..... school might be the only time those kids get any exercise and won't just be sitting in front of the TV.

Seems funny how schools are doing the parents jobs..... getting the kids outside, schools offering lunches (when I was in elementary we didn't have a cafeteria.... your parents had to pack a lunch and if they didn't the school called to find out why you didn't have a lunch), and they have to be the disciplinarians.... and then it's the schools that get blamed for a childs behaviour.

[DrKym]

I really wasn't aiming this thread at schools, I was more moved by this mans humble and forgiving nature, and the fact that he refused to blame any one thing for the tradegy that befall him and many others. That he in a very inoffensive but very powerful way placed the blame on the shoulders of the families of the shooter, and the people we charge to value our children.

It is not the responsibility of our schools to raise our children, or to instill the values and morals we want to instill in them, although sadly this is often true for many children. It is our responsibility to be aware and to help one another to care and love our youth enough to become involved, even if it makes others uncomfortable. I as a parent would want to know if an adult that I have placed my childs education and welfare in their hands had observations or information , especially if it was of a nature that will be detrimental to my childs' mental or emotional health, or his safety. In that regards I do not believe my child has any "rights", I believe that as his parent, my rights to ensure his well being trump any he may or may not have.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I think there are some parents who are too afraid to instil any discipline in their children at an early age which lets the little darlings think they can do and say exactly what they want.

This may be out of guilt because parents are working and try to make it up to junior by giving them a free rein or that some parents just don't have clue due to their own upbringing.

I'm not going to start calling for national service or corporal punishment but I do think the children should learn their place in society and learn to respect the adults around them and the rules they should be set. Their time will come.

My Katie is 17 and thoroughly spoilt but she knows the difference between right and wrong and has the self confidence not to follow the crowd

[sparks19]

I think there are some parents who are too afraid to instil any discipline in their children at an early age which lets the little darlings think they can do and say exactly what they want.

This may be out of guilt because parents are working and try to make it up to junior by giving them a free rein or that some parents just don't have clue due to their own upbringing.

I'm not going to start calling for national service or corporal punishment but I do think the children should learn their place in society and learn to respect the adults around them and the rules they should be set. Their time will come.

My Katie is 17 and thoroughly spoilt but she knows the difference between right and wrong and has the self confidence not to follow the crowd

OH of course not.... it's cute when they are toddlers to hear them tell their elders to shut up...... or they flip the bird. "Oh he doesn't know what it means... it's harmless" Yeah well eventually that toddler will grow into an adult and still think it is ok and the norm to behave this way.

There is a difference between spoiling your children and not disciplining them. I must say as a child I was pretty spoiled..... but I was still punished for doing wrong. I got my fair share of whacks on the butt lol.... and that started when I was a toddler. it was never accepted.... and after that I never even had to be grounded until I was 16 and that grounding was all based on a lie by my sister (long story but she's a nut case lol). I didn't want to misbehave (not to say I didn't have my fair share of temper tantrums or things of that sort but I never stayed out passed curfew, stole or any of that stuff) because I knew I would face the consequences..... and because I made my own decision to do the right things for the most part I was allowed to be very independant as a preteen.

Another thing I learned from playing school yard games..... sure I got upset if someone wasn't "playing by the rules" or I didn't get my way. But I learned that pouting and throwing a tantrum resulted in.... NOTHING. lol no one cared if you didn't like how the game was going or if it wasn't "fair" to you lol.... you were left to pout and throw your tantrum and they just continued the game without you. I don't throw tantrums anymore hahaha they don't work.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I really wasn't aiming this thread at schools, I was more moved by this mans humble and forgiving nature, and the fact that he refused to blame any one thing for the tradegy that befall him and many others. That he in a very inoffensive but very powerful way placed the blame on the shoulders of the families of the shooter, and the people we charge to value our children.

I saw nothing inoffenisve about it. To say "he refused to blame any one thing" is at best...disingenuous

He says...

it was a spiritual event that should be
forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much
of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame
lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers
themselves.

That sounds like blaming to me.

I look at the list of school shooting above and they all have one thing in common. GUNS...

Some insist that because the constitution says...A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms...there can be no restrictions on firearms...cop-killer bullets...rapid fire...automatics....

Yet...other rights...freedom from search and siezure...freedom of speech can be regulated and abridged.

The Supreme Court has ruled the government can regulate some speech...you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.

What can't the government set limits on firearms in the same manner?

I would feel more safe knowing there were no semi-automatics in the school than knowing the teacher has lead all the children in reciting the Lord's prayer.

[Puckstop31]

I look at the list of school shooting above and they all have one thing in common. GUNS...

Some insist that because the constitution says...A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms...there can be no restrictions on firearms...cop-killer bullets...rapid fire...automatics....

Yet...other rights...freedom from search and siezure...freedom of speech can be regulated and abridged.

The Supreme Court has ruled the government can regulate some speech...you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.

What can't the government set limits on firearms in the same manner?

I would feel more safe knowing there were no semi-automatics in the school than knowing the teacher has lead all the children in reciting the Lord's prayer.

There are restrictions on automatic weapons and certain types of ammunition. The problem is criminals don't care about laws.

You mention the government placing limits on firearms. What kind of limits? There are, IMHO, already more than enough gun control laws on the books. How about we enforce the laws that are already in place before we give the government even more power over us?

Finally, do not forget the real reason the founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the first place. They believed, as I do, that the government should fear the people not the people fear the government. I am not willing to give up the right to simply feel more "secure".

I promise you that draconian gun control laws is going to what starts the next revolution in this country. When they come for our guns, its time to vote from the rooftops. If the government wants to make me a criminal simply because I own guns, so be it. Who will fight for the government when half of the police and probably even more of the military will be on the side of freedom?

Society is the problem, lack of respect for each other, lack of common courtesy, lack of consequences for actions, lack of discipline... Not an inanimate object.

[sparks19]

Society is the problem, lack of respect for each other, lack of common courtesy, lack of consequences for actions, lack of discipline... Not an inanimate object.

That and lack of parenting.

How many children these days are given toy guns to play with? What kind of message does that send to your children? it is OK to use guns as a toy...... then you tell them that "real" guns are not a toy. How come one gun is a toy and one gun is NOT a toy. Education..... education..... education. TEACH them about guns. Dont give them a toy gun to "play" with and then tell them they can't touch a real gun and then hide it from them with no explanation. They need to learn respect..... respect for the weapon.... respect for people.... and respect for themselves.

EDUCATION.... starting at home and THEN education continuing on throughout life.... in schools.... in sports.... everywhere. But the bottom line.... the parents are responsible for them and their actions until they are adults.... but the education should not stop then. I know I am still learning lots of things..... I'm sure everyone is.

Although I do like that saying "Teenagers should move out into the world while they still know everything" I remember the "I know everything" phase haha I was quickly humbled out of that phase

[wombat2u2004]

There are restrictions on automatic weapons and certain types of ammunition. The problem is criminals don't care about laws.

You mention the government placing limits on firearms. What kind of limits? There are, IMHO, already more than enough gun control laws on the books. How about we enforce the laws that are already in place before we give the government even more power over us?

Finally, do not forget the real reason the founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the first place. They believed, as I do, that the government should fear the people not the people fear the government. I am not willing to give up the right to simply feel more "secure".

I promise you that draconian gun control laws is going to what starts the next revolution in this country. When they come for our guns, its time to vote from the rooftops. If the government wants to make me a criminal simply because I own guns, so be it. Who will fight for the government when half of the police and probably even more of the military will be on the side of freedom?

Society is the problem, lack of respect for each other, lack of common courtesy, lack of consequences for actions, lack of discipline... Not an inanimate object.

You can't just disarm the public because some whacko goes nuts. The public have the right to defend themselves, and therefore the right to bear firearms.
Lets face it, even if the public was disarmed, the criminals still seem to access weapons no problem....it's happened here in Australia....we have tough gun control laws, we in the public are now disarmed......STILL we have the criminals out there who access weapons.
Yes, society is to blame.
Wom

[lizbud]

There are restrictions on automatic weapons and certain types of ammunition. The problem is criminals don't care about laws.

You mention the government placing limits on firearms. What kind of limits? There are, IMHO, already more than enough gun control laws on the books. How about we enforce the laws that are already in place before we give the government even more power over us?

What current restrictions on there on automatic weapons? Do you mean
in the size of the clip people can use? I think gun control is more necessary
now. Gun control does not mean no guns sold, it should mean no more
assault weapons shoud be sold in gun stores. There is no need for anyone
to have half the auto weapons now available for sale. IMO

[wombat2u2004]

What current restrictions on there on automatic weapons? Do you mean
in the size of the clip people can use? I think gun control is more necessary
now. Gun control does not mean no guns sold, it should mean no more
assault weapons shoud be sold in gun stores. There is no need for anyone
to have half the auto weapons now available for sale. IMO

Yes, I have to agree with that. There are certainly many weapons that are not necessary to be made available to the public.
Wom

[Lady's Human]

You cannot buy an AK-47 in the United States. With the exception of a select few people, they are banned. This also goes for M-16's, Uzis, and anything else that gets lumped into the category of "Assault weapons". (Pointless category, a damned knife used to stab someone is an "Assault Weapon")

You cannot buy so-called "Armor piercing" ammunition in the United States.

You cannot buy a firearm in the United States if you have been convicted of a Felony. Depending on the offense, there are also misdemeanors which bar sales of firearms and require the confiscation of firearms if you have possession prior to the offense, most notably Domestic Violence of any sort. (Wanna have fun with your gun owning target shooting ex? File a restraining order request. Your ex is now no longer allowed to have firearms, regardless of whether or not he/she actually DID anything)

You cannot buy a firearm in the United States if you have a history of mental illness. (Oops, congressionally mandated loophole there)

There are age restrictions, locale restrictions (I.E. no carrying in places where alcohol is sold for consumption), the list of gun restrictions is endless.

Why in hell do we need more laws when the police and the criminal justice system CANNOT ENFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS?

[Edwina's Secretary]

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws would have guns...just curious...the shooters in these (just to name a few)

Virginia Tech 04/16/07

Amish Country, PA

Wisconsin

Columbine High School

Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96

Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97!

Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97

Stam! p, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98

How many were criminals (before the infamous shooting)??????

If the existing laws are sufficient...and IF ONLY "they" would enforce those laws....

The guy in Virginia bought his gun legally. No exisiting law was broken or unenforced....

so the question is...which of these shootings was the result of convicted criminals or people who bought guns illegally???

Which of these would have been prevented if exisiting gun laws were enforced???

Is the answer all of them???...or nearly all of them???....(It certainly isn't Viriginia Tech!)

Or are these just the same tired arguments...smoke screens...knee-jerk emotional responses the gun lobby throws up every time there is a horrendous shooting because of the availablity of instruments of death in this country?

[Lady's Human]

Mr. Cho should not have been able to purchase either firearm. A Federal Law barring people with a history of mental illness was unenforced.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Mr. Cho should not have been able to purchase either firearm. A Federal Law barring people with a history of mental illness was unenforced.

Sorry...LH...but you are wrong. He did not meet the legal definition of mental illness required to cause a ban on purchasing an instrument of death!

[Lady's Human]

No, I'm not wrong. The only reason he could acquire the handguns was a loophole in the NICS law. Had his mental health situation been reported as required he would not have been able to purchase the handguns.

He also had to lie on the federal purchase form to purchase the weapons.