I can't say I'm Sorry

[lizbud]

Found this comment on another forum to rebut the "seals are eating all
the fish" argument. Consider this:


Yes, the fish stocks have depleted, but that's not the fault of the seals.

In fact, the seals, when not able to access enough fish, will switch to eating small squid, etc., which also eat the fish.

In essence, if you leave the seals alone and switch to different fishing lanes for a couple of years, the seal will sort out your problem for you.

Instead, the fishers stick to the same fishing lanes, fish them out, blame the seals, kill the seals, then wonder why the fish stocks are still too low.

[wombat2u2004]

Found this comment on another forum to rebut the "seals are eating all
the fish" argument. Consider this:


Yes, the fish stocks have depleted, but that's not the fault of the seals.

In fact, the seals, when not able to access enough fish, will switch to eating small squid, etc., which also eat the fish.

In essence, if you leave the seals alone and switch to different fishing lanes for a couple of years, the seal will sort out your problem for you.

Instead, the fishers stick to the same fishing lanes, fish them out, blame the seals, kill the seals, then wonder why the fish stocks are still too low.

Yes....that is VERY true.
I was reading an article not too long ago about overfishing.....and I haven't heard of one single fisherman who has been bashed to death with an icepick.
Maybe a few fishing companies can be culled out of existence. Especially those who go for a particular form of sealife, take what they want, and throw the rest of the dead fish back into the water.
Wom

[Sophist]

Found this comment on another forum to rebut the "seals are eating all
the fish" argument. Consider this:


Yes, the fish stocks have depleted, but that's not the fault of the seals.

In fact, the seals, when not able to access enough fish, will switch to eating small squid, etc., which also eat the fish.

In essence, if you leave the seals alone and switch to different fishing lanes for a couple of years, the seal will sort out your problem for you.

Instead, the fishers stick to the same fishing lanes, fish them out, blame the seals, kill the seals, then wonder why the fish stocks are still too low.

Yes, the Dr., when she brought that up, did mention it was because WE were competing with the seals for food. If you read any of the links given, you'll see that even most staunch supporters of the hunt reject the idea that the cull is being done to protect the cod population.


And pitc9--- it's not exactly clubbing, generally speaking. It is usually large-calibar rifles and hakapiks (more like a pick-axe) that when used 'correctly' meet the guidelines for a 'humane' method of killing. In fact, a firm, well-placed blow from a hakapik should produce results pretty much comparable to the bullets fired from ships.

[lizbud]

And pitc9--- it's not exactly clubbing, generally speaking. It is usually large-calibar rifles and hakapiks (more like a pick-axe) that when used 'correctly' meet the guidelines for a 'humane' method of killing. In fact, a firm, well-placed blow from a hakapik should produce results pretty much comparable to the bullets fired from ships.

A distinction without a difference. I doubt the the baby seal cares which
object is used to bash it's head in.

[Sophist]

A distinction without a difference. I doubt the the baby seal cares which
object is used to bash it's head in.

A club and a hakapik aren't the same. I do feel there is a valid distinction.

The baby seal may not care, but I really don't think it has the cognitive ability to logically reason out the best way to die. Several teams of American and Canadian veterinarians have agreed that the hakapik qualifies as a humane method when used correctly.

In fact, if used correctly, the hakapik produces unconsciousness instantly. That is quicker than with euthanasia, which veterinarians report takes a few seconds. And death in the reports I have read typically occurs instantly or within 30 seconds of unconsciousness... well within the 90 seconds legally allotted. Euthanasia, if you read up on it, usually takes anywhere from 30 seconds to 90 seconds to produce death once the animal is unconscious and the heart and lungs have been stopped by the drug. So really, you could say the hakapik is a quicker way to go.

Either way, if the animal is rendered unsconscious, there isn't going to be a lot of suffering involved.

Rather than outlaw the hakapik because they remind you of caveman, it would help out the seals a lot more to lend your voice to ensuring that all hakapik users are properly trained.

[Sophist]

OOh, just checked the international laws (since the hunts occur in Canada, Naimibia, Russia, Greenland, Norway, other places?) and they are actually allowed 45-300 seconds to provide death and still have it be considered humane, so it looks like a properly used hakapik exceeds those standards pretty well.


Like I said, though, if you want to help the seals, don't call for the hakapik to be banned. I really don't see it being fruitful, as even the veterinarian commissions who do the studies haven't said it would be helpful or neccesary.

Instead, lend your voice to supporting the proper training, continued and expanded policing for rule-breakers, bleeding as soon as the animal is unconcscious/presumed dead to make sure it will die quickly, and the mandatory blink tests before hooking and skinning.

If you want to make a difference here, I really feel like you have to think about the problem fairly and objectively, and select goals that are reachable and will benefit the seals in important ways, even if it isn't your idea of a perfect solution, and even if it is still disturbing to for you to focus on.