breed with food allergies

[Vela]

I don't agree with it. It is very very often genetically passed down and can get worse with each generation becoming more intolerant and more immunocompromised. Things like colitis result from problem with that and that can be a nightmare for anyone who has a dog with that. As it gets passed down it also had a propensity for becoming worse and worse and you can end up with dogs who are intolerant to MANY things you might try to feed and then trying to find a food is a nightmare. Not to mention, what if some of those puppies end up in homes who don't have either the money to give proper food or care for that condition, or don't care enough and it gets hot spots and is in poor health because the owners don't want to pay money for more expensive or specialized food?

There are enough genetically sound dogs out that that don't have allergies, that personally I think its unnecessary and can lead to nightmares down the road for both dogs and owners.

[coco-bean]

Lets say two NON-food allergic dogs are bred, but the breeder wants to know if the pups have them anyways...is there a test that can be done? im assuming after a few weeks of birth..lets say 7 or 8 weeks old!

[sumbirdy]

My RB Buck had food allergies (he was allergic to chicken) but he sired pups who never had any. But I wouldn't risk it. (My parents bred him, I was like 8 at the time)

[coco-bean]

My RB Buck had food allergies (he was allergic to chicken) but he sired pups who never had any. But I wouldn't risk it. (My parents bred him, I was like 8 at the time)

well im glad yours all came out okay!

[pitc9]

I don't think it's right at all to breed a dog that has known problems.
There's already too many healthy dogs that are homeless.

[luvofallhorses]

I don't think it's right at all to breed a dog that has known problems.
There's already too many healthy dogs that are homeless.

ditto.

[pitc9]

My RB Buck had food allergies (he was allergic to chicken) but he sired pups who never had any. But I wouldn't risk it. (My parents bred him, I was like 8 at the time)

(The following are just questions meant to find the answers too, by NO means are the following questions meant to start any sort of tift here)

How do you know none of his puppies had allergies?
Is your family still in touch with every puppy they sold?

(I just want to point out things; I would want anyone to have found false hope in your experience with RB Buck and his pups)

[sumbirdy]

(The following are just questions meant to find the answers too, by NO means are the following questions meant to start any sort of tift here)

How do you know none of his puppies had allergies?
Is your family still in touch with every puppy they sold?

(I just want to point out things; I would want anyone to have found false hope in your experience with RB Buck and his pups)

We kept them all. My parents are nuts.

[coco-bean]

We kept them all. My parents are nuts.

wow, thats alot of little mouths to feed!

[dragondawg]

(The following are just questions meant to find the answers too, by NO means are the following questions meant to start any sort of tift here)

How do you know none of his puppies had allergies?
Is your family still in touch with every puppy they sold?

(I just want to point out things; I would want anyone to have found false hope in your experience with RB Buck and his pups)

Allergies in dogs are probably something that those who had dogs with allergies might be focused on. And there's nothing wrong with trying to prevent genetically linked skin conditions from being passed on to future generations. But how serious are allergies to food in dogs? Sheldom does one hear of a life threatening case.

However if one is interested in improving the health of our dogs, then more needs to be done to track and retire from breeding stock those lines who have a high incidence of: Lymphoma, Hemangiosarcoma, Osteosarcoma, Melanoma (oral), and other cancers.

The next time someone on this forum is interested in buying a pure breed dog, ask the breeder if s/he can supply the health records of all siblings of the parents and their parents and all their siblings. Ask what the incidence of cancer was in these lines. Prediction: You'll get a blank stare, or a generic non-specific avoidance answer. Neither is it profitable for them to retire their breeding stock affected. After all who cares if a few of the parents siblings died of Lymphoma? Well, the owner of the one of the puppies might care- years from now.

Ad hoc breeding has created a cancer epidemic in our pets. It's affecting mix breeds, and occuring in even puppies - witness the recent Raven thread. Even if addressed today, it will still get worse for awhile. Sadly it's not being addressed. While not wanting to pass on skin disorders via breeding is noble, it is minor compared to the major problem of cancer.

[coco-bean]

Allergies in dogs are probably something that those who had dogs with allergies might be focused on. And there's nothing wrong with trying to prevent genetically linked skin conditions from being passed on to future generations. But how serious are allergies to food in dogs? Sheldom does one hear of a life threatening case.

However if one is interested in improving the health of our dogs, then more needs to be done to track and retire from breeding stock those lines who have a high incidence of: Lymphoma, Hemangiosarcoma, Osteosarcoma, Melanoma (oral), and other cancers.

The next time someone on this forum is interested in buying a pure breed dog, ask the breeder if s/he can supply the health records of all siblings of the parents and their parents and all their siblings. Ask what the incidence of cancer was in these lines. Prediction: You'll get a blank stare, or a generic non-specific avoidance answer. Neither is it profitable for them to retire their breeding stock affected. After all who cares if a few of the parents siblings died of Lymphoma? Well, the owner of the one of the puppies might care- years from now.

Ad hoc breeding has created a cancer epidemic in our pets. It's affecting mix breeds, and occuring in even puppies - witness the recent Raven thread. Even if addressed today, it will still get worse for awhile. Sadly it's not being addressed. While not wanting to pass on skin disorders via breeding is noble, it is minor compared to the major problem of cancer.

extremely good point! thank you for making that evident! i think sometimes after a major accident or surgery ect. has happened and after all is well, we all seem to kinda forget, unless it's the person who it happened too!
I know we dont mean to forget but it's a part of life, and im glad you brought that to our attention! thank you!

[LilacDragon]

Allergies in dogs are probably something that those who had dogs with allergies might be focused on. And there's nothing wrong with trying to prevent genetically linked skin conditions from being passed on to future generations. But how serious are allergies to food in dogs? Sheldom does one hear of a life threatening case.

However if one is interested in improving the health of our dogs, then more needs to be done to track and retire from breeding stock those lines who have a high incidence of: Lymphoma, Hemangiosarcoma, Osteosarcoma, Melanoma (oral), and other cancers.

The next time someone on this forum is interested in buying a pure breed dog, ask the breeder if s/he can supply the health records of all siblings of the parents and their parents and all their siblings. Ask what the incidence of cancer was in these lines. Prediction: You'll get a blank stare, or a generic non-specific avoidance answer. Neither is it profitable for them to retire their breeding stock affected. After all who cares if a few of the parents siblings died of Lymphoma? Well, the owner of the one of the puppies might care- years from now.

Ad hoc breeding has created a cancer epidemic in our pets. It's affecting mix breeds, and occuring in even puppies - witness the recent Raven thread. Even if addressed today, it will still get worse for awhile. Sadly it's not being addressed. While not wanting to pass on skin disorders via breeding is noble, it is minor compared to the major problem of cancer.

I know several breeders that can tell you every major illness suffered by every puppy that has left their property. So - while they may not have the health records of the siblings of their dogs, they can tell you if cancer is an issue in their lines.

[dragondawg]

I know several breeders that can tell you every major illness suffered by every puppy that has left their property. So - while they may not have the health records of the siblings of their dogs, they can tell you if cancer is an issue in their lines.

Do they voluntarly stop breeding and sterilize all dogs in those lines they kept for breeding where there is an elevated incidence of cancer? Without the history of the siblings, parent, and grandparents of the mating pair, they are also in the dark genetically.

Shall we do a very quick search on Golden Retriever cancer breeding? An interesting link first on the list is: Golden Retriever Club of America. What is the closest they come to addressing the issue of cancer? In one section they discuss on the breeding decision for those who own a Golden:

SOUNDNESS. Your dog should be tested free of certain genetic defects, as should the proposed mate. Knowledge of the status of parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. with regard to genetic testing is also desirable. HIPS should be properly X-rayed, and the X-rays submitted to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals or PennHIP to be read as free of hip dysplasia. HEARTS should be examined by a board-certified cardiologist. EYES should be examined annually by a board-certified veterinary ophthalmologist and be free of hereditary cataracts, progressive retinal atrophy, and any other eye anomaly. ELBOWS should be properly X-rayed and the X-rays submitted to the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals or a board-certified veterinary radiologist, to be read as free of elbow dysplasia.

Any inheritable defects, including but not limited to retained testicles, overshot or undershot jaw, congenital heart defects, recurrent skin problems, thyroid deficiency, immunological problems, orthopedic problems and recurrent seizures or epilepsy occurring in either parent are all reasons not to breed, regardless of other qualities.

Criteria for breeding a Golden?

Note the absence of the word cancer. At any point do they make the statement: If any parents, grandparents, or siblings have cancer any offspring will not qualify for their papers?

They do recognize the problem of cancer is epidemic in the breed.

As you know, Golden Retrievers have a high incidence of cancer, with a 1998 Health Survey indicating that 57% of females and 66% of males will be affected. While many types of cancer are elevated in the breed, approximately half of the totals are lymphoma (1 in 8 Goldens) and hemangiosarcoma (1 in 5 Goldens).

What is the near term purpose of their research efforts:

This information has the potential to impact therapy decisions, as owners and veterinarians can take breed specific data into consideration when they explore treatment options...In addition to financial support, we also aid researchers in obtaining vital tissue and/or blood samples from affected dogs.

Golden Retriever Club response

It sounds noble that they are supporting research for treatment, but that's downstream and after the fact.

In summary you have a major organization who although they have made progress in combating hip dysplasia, have made no effort to provide strict breeding guidelines to prevent the propagation of oncogenes from one generation to the next. There's no other way to say it: Follow the money trail. If the incidence is 57% of females and 66% of males will be affected imagine an organization coming up with a program where their breeder members are told they can not breed 60-70% of their breeding stock starting tomorrow based on family history? It's not going to happen any time soon. Maybe when the breed is up to a 95% incidence of cancer the issue will be forced. In the mean time the oncogenes will continue to propagate not just in the pure breeds be it Goldens, Labs, Boxers etc, but also into the mix breeds.