A woman President

[Edwina's Secretary]

Here is something else for the pro-Hillary crowd to chew on...

I often hear people say how "brave" she was with the whole Lewinski thing. How is it brave to allow your spouse to cheat on you?

Again...I am not pro-Hillary...simply pro-truth....

How brave was Bush when he ran and hide out after 9/11??????

or Cheney....hiding in an "undisclosed location!"

Anyway...who ever called her "brave"...other than you?

Chew away truth seeker!

[Marigold2]

Originally Posted by Sophist
Again, I have to ask, have any of the Hilary supporters researched her at all? I implore you to educate yourself on her senatorial campaign. Let her camp and her speeches show you just how false and manipulative this woman is.

Yes Sophist both my husband and I pay great attention to all the candidates running and to all the debates on TV. You see I am the mother of three. I had two sons in the military. My oldest has served now 10 proud years. Twice he was sent to the Middle East and twice he risked his life for long periods of time. Because of the nature of his job in the military we were not allowed ANY contact for over six months. For a mother that is a lifetime of worry and fear. I feared for him and prayed for him daily. Twice he made this trip and twice I sat home helpless. My younger son was sent to the Middle East once. I care a great deal about all the issues and take nothing for granted. As far as Bill and Hilary's love and sex life I could care less. I just don't want my son to have to go back. I want a world that is safe for all peope, clean water, clean air, food on the table, a steady income, retirement benefits, health care, college for my daughter. At this time I feel Hilary is the best candidate to make that happen. But the election is a ways off and I have a lot of research and thinking to do in that time. I hope that this post I started gets everyone thinking about who would be best for this job. Even though we might not argree on a candidate I think we all agree that we want a safe and happy world and this war to end.

[Sophist]

Originally Posted by Sophist
Again, I have to ask, have any of the Hilary supporters researched her at all? I implore you to educate yourself on her senatorial campaign. Let her camp and her speeches show you just how false and manipulative this woman is.

Yes Sophist both my husband and I pay great attention to all the candidates running and to all the debates on TV. You see I am the mother of three. I had two sons in the military. My oldest has served now 10 proud years. Twice he was sent to the Middle East and twice he risked his life for long periods of time. Because of the nature of his job in the military we were not allowed ANY contact for over six months. For a mother that is a lifetime of worry and fear. I feared for him and prayed for him daily. Twice he made this trip and twice I sat home helpless. My younger son was sent to the Middle East once. I care a great deal about all the issues and take nothing for granted. As far as Bill and Hilary's love and sex life I could care less. I just don't want my son to have to go back. I want a world that is safe for all peope, clean water, clean air, food on the table, a steady income, retirement benefits, health care, college for my daughter. At this time I feel Hilary is the best candidate to make that happen. But the election is a ways off and I have a lot of research and thinking to do in that time. I hope that this post I started gets everyone thinking about who would be best for this job. Even though we might not argree on a candidate I think we all agree that we want a safe and happy world and this war to end.

Really, you can only learn so much from them reading prepared answers from their writers at the debates.

Study their actions, and their less high-profile words and promises. But most of all their actions--- like voting in favor of the war that sent your sons away, like Hilary did. She did not come out as against the war until Obama did so, and surged in the polls enough to frighten her. Now she claims she was always opposed to the war. But her vote is on record... this wonderful peacemonger DID vote for your sons to go to the middle east.

I have waited anxiously for two brothers who were sent to Iraq by Dubya, so I can sympathize somewhat with your position there. But you know what, waiting for a soldier is not the same thing as political awareness. I do not in any way mean that as an insult, and I do not claim to be a political genius. It's just... grr.

It is actually a pretty smart move for you to make, speaking from an objective debate stance. I mean, it is an emotional and volatile enough subject that it isn't really safe to respond to it, even if it really doesn't tie into or refute any of the arguments we've made against Hillary.

Also, you addressed the post to me, so please realize I have not said one word about The Clinton's sex/love life. Not a single word. Too cheap a shot so far, really. If the so-called Hillary haters are as backwards and silly as her fans seem to think, then we can be so on our own without putting such ridiculousness in my mouth for me.

[Puckstop31]

....I just don't want my son to have to go back....

Ya know what? I do not want my children to have to fight this enemy either. But if we don not defeat then now, they will. Running away without victory will doom us to another generation having to fight them. Call it a curse, but I have seen this enemy face to face. I have been in the same room as some of them before. I understand what motivates them. Reasons why we are there beside (it is totally irrelevant now) we MUST win and not let the politicians turn this into another Vietnam, all in the name of gaining power.

Sure, Hank might make YOUR Son safe, but she would make your grandchildren have to fight.

I want a world that is safe for all peope, clean water, clean air, food on the table, a steady income, retirement benefits, health care, college for my daughter.....

A world safe for all people? What exactly does this mean? But other than that... You don't have those things now? Who do you think should provide all the things you listed? The Government? Do you really think our Government should be responsible for those things?

[wombat2u2004]

Ya know what? I do not want my children to have to fight this enemy either. But if we don not defeat then now, they will. Running away without victory will doom us to another generation having to fight them. Call it a curse, but I have seen this enemy face to face. I have been in the same room as some of them before. I understand what motivates them. Reasons why we are there beside (it is totally irrelevant now) we MUST win and not let the politicians turn this into another Vietnam, all in the name of gaining power.

Sure, Hank might make YOUR Son safe, but she would make your grandchildren have to fight.



A world safe for all people? What exactly does this mean? But other than that... You don't have those things now? Who do you think should provide all the things you listed? The Government? Do you really think our Government should be responsible for those things?

You shouldn't be having a go at Monica old mate. I think you will find that this proud mother of a veteran would agree with every word that you say.
I am also a veteran, and I believe that another loss because of politicians would be fatal to the western world.
As for provision of these things she asks for by the government, no, I think that is NOT what she meant. Marigold is quite aware of what it costs to be free, and probably more of a patriot than I have met in quite a while. I believe that she is aware of the lies and deceit put across to the public by prospective presidential candidates. So who is one to choose???
They are all after the power, the job, the bucks, the perks that go with it.
I suppose the best anyone can hope for is their own personal choice.
k ???
Wombat

[Puckstop31]

You shouldn't be having a go at Monica old mate.

My comments are not a stab at Monica. I could care less about her. Actually, I felt bad for her at the time. She was young, naive and got taken advantage of. My comments are simply about how Hillary handled the situation.

I think you will find that this proud mother of a veteran would agree with every word that you say.
I am also a veteran, and I believe that another loss because of politicians would be fatal to the western world.
As for provision of these things she asks for by the government, no, I think that is NOT what she meant. Marigold is quite aware of what it costs to be free, and probably more of a patriot than I have met in quite a while. I believe that she is aware of the lies and deceit put across to the public by prospective presidential candidates. So who is one to choose???
They are all after the power, the job, the bucks, the perks that go with it.
I suppose the best anyone can hope for is their own personal choice.
k ???
Wombat

Fair enough I suppose... Still, I would like to see Marigolds comments here. I just hope that her desire to end the conflict are not selfish ones. By that I mean the simple fact that she wants her son to be safe. Of course ANY mother wants their children to be safe. But how safe will our world be if we run in the face of this enemy?

Also, just for the record, I am quite disappointed with the way the current administration has horribly mis-managed this conflict. I HATE it when politicians play politics with the lives of our soldiers. If a person REALLY 'supports the troops' they will want them to WIN.

[lizbud]

Still, I would like to see Marigolds comments here. I just hope that her desire to end the conflict are not selfish ones. By that I mean the simple fact that she wants her son to be safe. Of course ANY mother wants their children to be safe. But how safe will our world be if we run in the face of this enemy?

They are an enemy in part because we attacked & bombed them without
truth that they had harmed us on 9/11.

Just wanted say that my children are not in the military, but if they were,
you would find me to be the most selfish woman on earth.I do understand
Marigolds comments very well.

[Edwina's Secretary]

. Now she claims she was always opposed to the war. But her vote is on record...


It is actually a pretty smart move for you to make, speaking from an objective debate stance.

Are you suggesting Hilary has denied her pro-Iraq war vote? I think not. Tried to explain it, yes, but deny it...no.

When might you start exhibiting "objective debate stance"?

Again...not a fan of Hilary...just the truth...she never claimed to be a Jew, she never claimed to be a long-term New Yorker and she never claimed to have voted against the war.

You have put all those words in her mouth.....

Or are you practicing Sophist debate? ...you know...fallacious reasoning?

[cassiesmom]

Questions, I have questions...

Can Mrs. Clinton win? I saw a bumper sticker on a car that said, Anyone But Clinton

Can Barack Obama win? I'm not sure about him either, he has not been a senator very long, he doesn't have much of a track record yet. Do people outside of Illinois even know who this guy is?

Can it be said that it's good for America to have both a white female and a black male candidate in the Presidential primary? Even if neither of them end up being the president will we still have accomplished something? All the front running Republicans are white males.

And, finally - can it be said that the Democrats and the Republicans are not as far apart on the issues as they once were?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Can Barack Obama win? I'm not sure about him either, he has not been a senator very long, he doesn't have much of a track record yet. Do people outside of Illinois even know who this guy is?

I don't really count as "outside of Illinois" but I think Mr. Obama has had HUGE national press lately. Cover of TIME, Newsweek....heck...Fox Network is making up lies about him so he must be getting national attention. As for how long he has been a senator....GW Bush was govenor of Texas for six years (one and a half terms) before he ran for President.... Not the best example I realize but still....

Abraham Lincoln served in the Illinois House of Representatives and only one term in the US House of Representatives.

[Lady's Human]

Not that anyone remembers, being that the national memory tends to be something on the order of 30 seconds, but it's not exactly new to have a female or a minority candidate in the primaries. Is everyone's memory so bad as to forget Elizabeth Dole, Geraldine Ferraro, and Jesse Jackson?

[Sophist]

Are you suggesting Hilary has denied her pro-Iraq war vote? I think not. Tried to explain it, yes, but deny it...no.

When might you start exhibiting "objective debate stance"?

Again...not a fan of Hilary...just the truth...she never claimed to be a Jew, she never claimed to be a long-term New Yorker and she never claimed to have voted against the war.

You have put all those words in her mouth.....

Or are you practicing Sophist debate? ...you know...fallacious reasoning?

Sophist reasoning is not always synonymous with fallacious. You didn't read the whole definition I provided.

I have not put any of these words in Hilary's mouth. Again, please, please, pretty pretty please read some of Hilary's speeches and press releases.

I don't remember saying she flat-out denied voting for the war? No, not those exact words. But read her recent statements, she is clearly making it sounds like she never supported it. I did try to make the point that she was for the war until other Dem forerunners openly opposed it and gained polling points. And then she was passionately against it. Gee, how convenient.

If you honestly think she didn't reveal her supposedly Jewish heritage (which she lied about, saying her grandmother was jewish when she was only married to a jewish man for a little while) after the New York Jewish community revolted on her for reports of her using ethnic slurs against Jewish politicians and publicly supporting Arafat's wife, then you are definitely a historical revisionist. She very, very strongly and repeatedly emphasized this among the Hassidic communities her support was flagging in. And guess what? Judiasm is typically passed down through a matrilineal line---at least, as far as devout jews are concerned. This is why she didn't say her father's mother was married to a jew---which would make her not Jewish according to traditional judaic law. She said her grandmother was a jew... a lie that, according to the Orthodox Jews she was campaigning amongst made her a Jew.

And her fudging of her residency requirements and involvement in New York politics is a matter of recent, well-documented record.

Denying obvious facts and committing personal attacks on those who try to make you listen to them doesn't make them go away, and refusing to learn more about a politician doesn't serve your turn well in defending their suitability for office.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sophist reasoning is not always synonymous with fallacious. You didn't read the whole definition I provided.

Never saw the definition you posted....I rely on my Merriam Webster...it says...."a captious or fallacious reasoner."

It goes on to say "fallacious, illogical, unreasonable, specious".....I left those out.

[Sophist]

Never saw the definition you posted....I rely on my Merriam Webster...it says...."a captious or fallacious reasoner."

It goes on to say "fallacious, illogical, unreasonable, specious".....I left those out.

Well, then, it is a very incomplete definition and does an injustice to the Sophist school of philosophy and rhetoric.


It is all Plato's fault .

[Edwina's Secretary]

doesn't serve your turn well in defending their suitability for office.

I ask you....where....exactly where...have I defending Hillary's suitability for office?

I have defended the truth....maybe just not your truth