A woman President

[critter crazy]

Wow! I am thinking you have been extremely fortunate! Good for you!

Maybe I have been fortunate, and maybe it was because i was in the army. In the Army There is no different pay scale for women, we all get paid the same, based on time in and Rank. As it should be wherever you work. But I have held a few Civilian Jobs, and the pay was still the same for me, as it was for the guy working right next to me.

[Cataholic]

Anyone that holds, "I wouldn't vote for anyone on the basis of their gender", how many of you have voted for someone simply because of their party affilitation? Voting for someone simply on the basis of their gender makes at least as much sense as voting for someone on the basis of their party affiliation.

I do think a woman would work more progressively towards 'woman's issues' than a man. I think a woman can 'get' gender bias more than a man. I **want** a woman president if for no other reason than to see how the other gender does it.

And, LH- you are acting unfair! If you recall, in the driving while under the influence of a car phone thread, I was called to task for tsk tsk'ing stats/surveys/polls....but, now, you imply that stats/surveys/polls can be skewed? WHAT?

LOL, and welcome back!

[Karen]

Anyone that holds, "I wouldn't vote for anyone on the basis of their gender", how many of you have voted for someone simply because of their party affilitation? Voting for someone simply on the basis of their gender makes at least as much sense as voting for someone on the basis of their party affiliation.

I am the one who origionally posted that and I can state categorically that I have never voted for anyone based on their party affiliation.

I do think a woman would work more progressively towards 'woman's issues' than a man. I think a woman can 'get' gender bias more than a man.

Yes, but will she be able to do anything more about it, or is s/he (pick a politician, any politician) just paying it lip service during the campaign to get votes?

Can you tell there are very few politicians I trust?

I **want** a woman president if for no other reason than to see how the other gender does it.

I think four years and the fate of the planet are a little much to risk "just to see" anything.

Just My Humble Opinion ...

[Lady's Human]

Cataholic:

It all depends on where the statistics are coming from whether they can be trusted or not. Methodology, sample size, and other issues come into play whenever you are relying on someone else's statistics to prove or disprove a point., In the case of the Johns Hopkins study I cited in the cell phone discussion, the sample size was large, and they were using raw data from insurance companies' accident records.

In the case of pay, according to the bureau of labor statistics, on average women who are employed full time worked .7 of an hour per day less than their male couterparts. That alone accounts for a pay disparity. In the case of the Bureau of Labor stats, their sample size is huge (the US Workforce) and they are government employees, so they have no axe to grind. They use raw data from US employers, so the data they use has not been skewed by being filtered by another study. (Using data from a study in your statistical study, as is done at times, is a sure way to twist data.)


As far as voting for a party instead of an individual? Let's just say in the last 4 elections I've voted in, very few of the candidates I voted for won. Why? They weren't representatives of either of the major parties. I have a tendency to vote on the conservative side of things, but I don't vote for someone because they are a Republican. I actually look at the candidates and look at their platforms, and email campaigns for more information.

Slick campaigners do nothing for me. They are more likely NOT to get my vote because any time the BS meter goes off the candidate has probably lost my vote. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and just let the chips fall.

[lizbud]

I think four years and the fate of the planet are a little much to risk "just to see" anything.

Just My Humble Opinion ...

Well, we just risked the last 8 years to a complete nincompoop, I seriously
doubt ANY woman could be worse than he was.

In my humble opinion.

[Cataholic]

Liz, I agree!

I find it odd that we are willing to put our faith in a male president for four years....essentially, just waiting to see what they do (as they promise), but, when it comes to a woman, there are just too many "unknowns" for most of us to be comfortable.

Ah, sexism. Alive and well!

[Karen]

Liz, I agree!

I find it odd that we are willing to put our faith in a male president for four years....essentially, just waiting to see what they do (as they promise), but, when it comes to a woman, there are just too many "unknowns" for most of us to be comfortable.

Ah, sexism. Alive and well!

Not in my mind, thank you very much. Trust me, I was raised in a very equal opportunity household. I just said I wouldn't vote for someone just because she was a woman. I didn't say I didn't want to change genders in the White House, dagnabbit, what I meant, and mean is that gender has no role in my voting choice.

I don't care if you are male or female, gay, bi or straight, black, white, green or plaid. What matters to me is your platform, ideas, ability, integritry, and worthiness for the task at hand.

[Marigold2]

Hey Karen my favorite color is plaid.

[Sophist]

Liz, I agree!

I find it odd that we are willing to put our faith in a male president for four years....essentially, just waiting to see what they do (as they promise), but, when it comes to a woman, there are just too many "unknowns" for most of us to be comfortable.

Ah, sexism. Alive and well!

Ah, but we aren't putting our faith in them just to see what a MAN will do. We put our faith in them because of what we hope that individual will do. It was posted that we should vote for a woman just to see what would happen... it is not sexist to insist we will not vote for a candidate just out of curiousity toawrds how their sex organs will affect the office.

The point was clearly made that those of us who disagreed with the statement thought that the individual in question for an office was a much bigger consideration that their plumbing.

[Marigold2]

I agree, Bush is the WORST president we have ever had. As for Dennis K. I know think he will not win but but I do believe his heart is in the right place.

Hilary is driven, and anyone with that kind of drive and ambition will want to do a good job, they hate to fail at anything.

It's time for a woman to take the helm. And maybe Billy boy had a problem keeping his pants zipped but he was an excellent president who had the respect of the world. I think he would make a great right hand man for his wife. The two of them together in the white house is in my opinion just what this country needs.

[DrKym]

I agree, Bush is the WORST president we have ever had. As for Dennis K. I know think he will not win but but I do believe his heart is in the right place.

Hilary is driven, and anyone with that kind of drive and ambition will want to do a good job, they hate to fail at anything.

It's time for a woman to take the helm. And maybe Billy boy had a problem keeping his pants zipped but he was an excellent president who had the respect of the world. I think he would make a great right hand man for his wife. The two of them together in the white house is in my opinion just what this country needs.

Like I said SHE didn't do a bad job the first time out as Prez!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Lh...both your employers...the Army and USPS are heavily regulated when it comes to pay so...in your universe there is..or at least should be pay equity.

But you are right...figures lie and liars figure. I can find you a very credible survey/study...from an organization that supposedly is unbiased to support pretty much any position you would like to support.

And this is not true....

In the case of the Bureau of Labor stats, their sample size is huge (the US Workforce)

if you are suggesting that ALL employers are included. Employers do not have to provide the information to the Bureau...they choose to... So whether it is accurate or not...<<shrug>> it does not come off payroll registers -- it is what the employer chooses to report. I have had the responsibility of this reporting with employers in the past. Sometimes it gets done and sometimes.... It is good information, albeit a little out of date by the time it gets published....but the gospel truth...the whole truth? Not really. And the guys who prepare it....they are government employees in the same manner that USPS employees are government employees. It is more a quasi-government group -- sort of a sub-contract gig.

And Lizbud....amen sister! Wouldn't it be nice if whoever the next president is, it be someone who can try and restore some dignity and respect for our nation after these last few abysmal years?

[Lady's Human]

ES,

In the army, pay is absolutely equitable. One pay table, no OT, what ya get is what ya get.

In the PO, however, there is a pay disparity. Why? If you look at the OT volunteer lists in the office I work for, 2/3 of the volunteers are male, in a workforce that is about a 50/50 split between men and women. Therefore, a male in the same position as a female is going to get pay more statistically, as they are more likely to get OT than the equivalent female. In a workplace where anything over 10 hours in a shift is doubletime, a wage disparity can be racked up rapidly.

BTW, I wasn't suggesting that all workers were represented in the BLS figures, I was just using it as an example of a large sample group as opposed to a small sampling.

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES,

.

In the PO, however, there is a pay disparity. Why? If you look at the OT volunteer lists in the office I work for, 2/3 of the volunteers are male, in a workforce that is about a 50/50 split between men and women. Therefore, a male in the same position as a female is going to get pay more statistically, as they are more likely to get OT than the equivalent female. In a workplace where anything over 10 hours in a shift is doubletime, a wage disparity can be racked up rapidly.

Any decent survey should look at base pay as well as overtime pay. And of course, in exempt jobs, hours worked are not tracked and overtime not paid.

I could get into the political argument of WHY woman are not as able to earn overtime as men....but today I am being non-political.

Just want to make sure you understand the BLS is NOT the Holy Grail of Compensation Surveys nor is cash compensation the whole story.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Well, we just risked the last 8 years to a complete nincompoop, I seriously
doubt ANY woman could be worse than he was.

In my humble opinion.

I couldn't agree more!!! This sums up the entire situation in a nutshell.

Marigold: Good for you, starting this thread. I think you've got something here!! I would vote for Hilary in a heartbeat!!