New dog, won't stop barking...help!

[borzoimom]

One more point- I start crate training alias " the dinner box". First I put dinner in front of the crate door ( with the door unable to close quickly etc- usually I tie the door open .) Then- we have dinners ( that means breakfast or dinner btw) in the box- door open. I do this for like 2 days. Then I close the door behind then gently as they eat. Increasing when I let them out from 2-5 minutes. Then let out casual- do something else to change the subject- then we go out. ( usually I wash bowls). Then this way the dog doesn't associate getting out as any big event..When the dog flies into the crate for dinner, and doesn't even flinch when I shut the door, and waits quietly for me to come back. Then I start with longer times- . I put a cookie in at night, and the the dogs spends the night in there. ( in our room of course). No activity in the house, and no reason to get up obviously. )
Until the dog understands the crate is safe, except for the ride home in the car, I do not use the crate for any long term. Adults- or pups.. Its easier to take it slow and end up with a dog that will easily crate with no anxiety, then to rush it and end up having to fix problems.
I was told femka was crate trained by the way. Well I watched her in a crate- and she was anxious. I went back like I would a "untrained dog", and soon she will curl up in a crate right away and go to sleep. With the shepherds, I had a few I bought as adults, that were crate " possesive". I solved it the same way..

[GraceByDesign]

Agility, I am aware not to use the crate to punish. I also did not plan to use the crate-in-the-basement as isolation. It was just a nice place to put it, where all her stuff can be and a play area. I have never had a dog that would not go into a crate willingly, and stay by itself. Just lucky to this point, I guess

There are obviously issues with Dottie that we do not know. She is eager to please, and seems to be intellingent. We are successfully and consistently ignoring her jumping, and already we can see a difference. She has a tendency to play very rough if we don't watch it.

We do have her in a crate in the kitchen now. She is happy if she can see and hear us. If we go upstairs, she gets anxious after a few minutes. When she quiets down, we then speak to her.

Borzoi, Not sure how well the crate as a dinner box will work right now, as she is off her food. I take her to vet Wednesday. What do you do with them when they are not in the crate? I am unwilling (no flack please) to let her be loose to potentially potty in the house... then we will have to undo THAT. We don't have a fenced yard, so I cannot just turn her out.

Right now we are trying to get some sort of schedule. Since she is not a puppy, with the puppy-bladder, I was thinking I would not to have to take her out as often... maybe I was wrong?

1. Take outside until she potties; if after 10-15 minute walk she has not gone, back into upstairs crate (we have always used "Go in your house" so we think of it as house, not cage or jail.) Take out again in 30 minutes.
2. Play in basement, fetch, water, food if that time (though as I said she is off her food)
3. walk for about 10 minutes or until she goes
4. back into upstairs crate. She gets pup-peroni (yay we found a treat she loves) when she goes into the crate, and at various random times when she is being quiet, to reinforce the good behavior.
5. repeat in a couple of hours. (I now realize I should maybe take her out more often?)

We are also taking a couple of longer (about a mile each) walks a day for exercise. (great for me, too!!)

I thought when crate training, you remove dog from crate and immediately go to the potty area (ie outside for us) If she potties you play a while, eat, or etc, in the house, then walk again and put her back in crate. If she does not potty, she goes back into crate. Then they eventually get that the whole house is the crate. If they don't soil their house, and you don't give them opportunity to soil yours, they learn to go where you want them to go. At least this is how I have always done and read about this in the past, though we were dealing with puppies, and not 1+ year old dogs.

I have hopes for her, but we all have some learning to do! I also a) tend to want 'my mother's perfectly behaved cocker spaniel behavior' immediately, and b) forget that we have had her for less than 48 hours, and we are all still in shock from all the changes!

Thanks again everyone for all the advice! Even though I have had pets for years, it is always good to have info so I don't make the same mistakes!

[gwen]

Oh my gosh!!! I'm from england and I am in a state of shock, I only recently found out that you can actually get a cat de-clawed??? and now I read you can get a dog de-barked. I am totally gobsmacked. Both of these things are absolutely unbelievable, I thought I seen and heard of everyhting but obviously not

[SunsetRose]

I am unwilling (no flack please) to let her be loose to potentially potty in the house.

Umm, no offense, but why did you get a dog if you can't deal with that kind of stuff or didn't want your house messed up?

I am going to first agree with the others that the dog doesn't belong in the basement. I understand that you have a new house that you would like to keep clean and new looking, but part of having a dog is being able to deal with your posessions being ruined and deal with cleaning up messes. An isolated dog will not make a good pet. In fact, it is isolation that causes many behavioral problems in dogs.

Second, you are not going to be able to successfully potty train her if she is in the basement and you are upstairs. Potty training requires constant supervision, she shouldn't be allowed to have the opportunity to potty where she's not supposed to and this includes in the crate. How are you going to know when she has to go potty and see those signs when you are upstairs watching TV and she is down in the basement completely out of sight and possibly out of mind?

And finally about crate training, you can't force it on her. If she is claustrophobic, then trying to force her into a crate and lock her in there all night will only damage her emotionally and can potentially cause aggression. You must have patience and you must take it one step at a time. If you can't even get her to go in using beggin strips or treats, then you need to stop what your doing and back up and start again using baby steps. And by baby steps, I mean you reward her for every step she makes towards that crate and even sniffing it before you start to get her to walk in.

[GraceByDesign]

Thank you Sunset, for your comments. It seems maybe you did not read the remainder of this thread, and my responses to people, or you would have read that she is not isolated in the basement, she is in a different crate upstairs in the kitchen. And since my last post, she has been allowed out and about in the house in increasing increments of time, and I have been keeping a sharp eye on her. One accident in the basement when my daughter was in charge and I was in the toilet, of course as I was getting ready to take her out to potty.

I got a dog because we want a dog. However, my home is not a toilet. I don't allow people to potty on the floor, and will not allow my pets to do so either. I know accidents happen. We have had 4 now since we got her on Saturday. (3 were Sunday) In fact, this whole 'adopting a dog from the shelter' experience has not gone at all like I had planned. We are trying to roll with things as best we can.

I also mentioned in a previous post that it was not my intention to isolate her in the basement, but it was a nice place to put "her area" with a nice big rug. The basement is unfinished, a great place to play ball and 'fetch the bobo' and get other running exercise. While we do take a couple long walks a day, they are walks, and she has tons of energy and needs to run around. Our house in not huge, and I would like her to know that basement=running around (with and without humans), while living room and kitchen=lazing about with the humans. Dogs are smart. If they can learn where to poop, they can learn where romping play is acceptible.

So anyway, my question was this: While I am taking perhaps days to get her coaxed into the crate, do I just allow her to run loose and poop everywhere?? Seems like this would negate the effects of trying to crate train/ housebreak her in the first place. I am home all day, but I do have to do things, like go to the bathroom myself and sleep, times I cannot supervise her. (((I originally asked this question from a training standpoint, not from the 'mess up my house' view, although in my mind they go hand in hand.)))

[applesmom]

I haven't read the entire thread but I certainly agree with Gracebydesign that any dog; puppy or adult that is being house trained needs constant supervision.

There's nothing wrong with putting the dog/pup in a crate while you take a shower, run to the store, mop a floor etc. However a little advance planning can work things out so that the dog is never confined for unneccesarily long periods of time.

The dog is in a whole new environment, unsure of herself and not knowing what to expect next. A reasonably inteligent dog with the proper supervision will only take a week or so to learn the proper places to go pee and poop.

She isn't going to learn it while locked in the crate! A week or two of putting up with a little inconvience of having to keep an eye on the dog instead of doing things that could wait a few days would solve both of your problems.

Less time in the crate, more time with the dog, and in a couple of weeks everyone will be living happily ever after!

[SunsetRose]

While I am taking perhaps days to get her coaxed into the crate, do I just allow her to run loose and poop everywhere?

You don't necessarily need a crate to potty train a dog. It can be a valuable and helpful tool yes, but it certainly isn't a necessity. I have potty trained 2 puppies and one adolescent dog without a crate. In fact, my dogs have never even seen a crate because I don't have one.

Just keep the dog with you and start by taking him out 30 minutes or so at first. Keep him on a leash if you must so he is always near you. Once he potties outside, praise him like crazy and give him a treat. Then he'll probably need to go back out in another hour to two hours.

Out of curiosity, how were you planning on potty training him with the crate if you weren't going to let him run loose because he might relieve himself on the floor?

[borzoimom]

I haven't read the entire thread but I certainly agree with Gracebydesign that any dog; puppy or adult that is being house trained needs constant supervision.

There's nothing wrong with putting the dog/pup in a crate while you take a shower, run to the store, mop a floor etc. However a little advance planning can work things out so that the dog is never confined for unneccesarily long periods of time.

The dog is in a whole new environment, unsure of herself and not knowing what to expect next. A reasonably inteligent dog with the proper supervision will only take a week or so to learn the proper places to go pee and poop.

She isn't going to learn it while locked in the crate! A week or two of putting up with a little inconvience of having to keep an eye on the dog instead of doing things that could wait a few days would solve both of your problems.

Less time in the crate, more time with the dog, and in a couple of weeks everyone will be living happily ever after!

I agree- and let me add this. Have you taken the dog to the vet for a physical? Excessive urination could be a urinary infection, and excessive bowl activity can be any thing from anal gland infection ( makes the dog 'feel' like they have to go) to even a pancreas problem that is releasing acid into the bowel, or over active bowel from nervousness of being in a new home.. Even parasites like round worms can make more frequent bowel movements.
Also- what are feeding her? Some foods are more digestable than others.
After a clean bill of health- here is a trick that worked for me. I had one dog that was hard to housebreak. I had the dog follow me if I left the room.. It uh got a little tricky in going to the bathroom, but I just kept a light lead on. ( then he wouldnt go like I was uh detained). The Monks use to call this "teethering" meaning the dog just stays with you on a lead. That maybe extreme- but just keeping her with you will not only solve the problem, but also bond her to you as well if this is nervous bowel syndrone.

[DannysMommy]

We just got a new puppy. Our first. What we did was........

Prior to dog being brought home....his house area was closed in. A gate at the Kitchen and at the hall way. He has room in the living room and the dining room. His crate was out in the living room and he was able to sniff all around it prior to ever going in it.

We got a LARGE ( I think for a 50 pound dog?) crate and he is 7.2 pounds at last weigh in.

BUT I put in a bed, 3 toys and a raw hide. There was room to lay down but the rest of the room was FILLED up.

He was not put into the crate untill it was time for bed. Kids were sent to bed, TV was put on music, light.....all but one in the hall was turned off . (This was really for daughter as her night light..........) Then I pick him up, give love and talk puppy talk and say good night..... put him in and walk away with out a second look or word after it's locked.

He cried about 10 min's the first night and never again.

I have never tried to do it during the day as he is only 7.2 pounds and I carry him in my daughter doll carrier every where I go! LMAO or he has free rome of his un-gated area of the house.

I take him out side for about 20-30 min's after eating and after every nap. He's got the idea now and we are sometimes out for less than 45 seconds!

Like I said. I am lucky that I am home right now, so I can give him LOTS of attention and watch for the signs that he needs to go out and see how much he is drinking and go by that.

It was the perfect time to get a puppy.

I've always worked full time before so I couldn't train one.

On his side though....... he seems to be a VERY smart puppy! I will doing some training classes with him and see how he does in those! I think we got VERY lucky and got the real "Pick of the litter" there!

I also ONLY use the crate at night. The area's of the house I don't want him in are gated off, so I don't use it during the day. I will have to start soon during the day....... which I WORRY ABOUT........ right now he's gone everywhere with me and has never been a lone during the day!

I have a few meeting next week for a volunteer role I have, and I worry about him being alone during the day. I will do the same routine......... Lights off (But will be day light) music TV on, put him in right as I go with chew toys, raw hide and bed....... and out the door with out a 2nd look at him. THATS THE PLAN anyway!! LMAO!!

I'm tempted to leave a window open and sit out side to just listen to how he does!! Just so I know! Nothing I can do if he doesn't do well...... I have to go....... just hope for the best and a clean crate when I get home ASAP. LMAO! (I posted here also about how to start daytime crate training!)

Anyway...... sorry...... babbled just a bit huh? Sorry!! LMAO!!

Good luck and I hope it all works out for you and your baby! ( As my kids are 14 and 5........ Danny is the baby!!! LOL!!!)

Best wishes,
Rayna