Disabled person in Wal-Mart thrown out!

[Lady's Human]

Federal law does NOT always trump state law.

Little thing called the 10th amendment.

If it were so cut and dry a large % of USSC cases would never have been needed.

[DrKym]

Federal law does NOT always trump state law.

Little thing called the 10th amendment.

If it were so cut and dry a large % of USSC cases would never have been needed.

In this instance it does as it has been upheld by the supreme court several times over.

The ADA Service animal law will trump state and local laws even in regards to breed bans.

I am not knowledgable enough to know about police work etc but I do have many years of experience with this law, and the way it is seen and dealt with by the courts.

this is one link that is helpful and I will go through my data base for other court cases supporting this information.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/animal.htm

[Lady's Human]

That comment was in reference to your blanket statement about federal law trumping state, county and local laws. In this case it may, but in many cases it doesn't.

[DrKym]

That comment was in reference to your blanket statement about federal law trumping state, county and local laws. In this case it may, but in many cases it doesn't.

I am sorry if it came off as a blanket statement LH, it was intended for reference to this thread only. I never meant it to be taken in reference to any other laws , as I said I am not knowledgable enough to speak on the Federal laws regarding USSC or police work or even health or welfare laws. Just this one. Please accept my apology if it came off as all encompassing comment.

[NicoleLJ]

Just so you all know in the States Service Dogs do not have to wear any identifying ID or equipment, they do not have to be certified and no business can asked to see ID on the Service Dog. A business can only legally ask 3 questions. Is that a Service Dog? Are you Disabled? What Tasks does your service animal perform? Here some links that may help to answer some of your questions:

http://www.acesinfo.org/questions.htm
http://www.deltasociety.org/home.htm
http://www.iaadp.org/index.html

Nicole & Sheena

[mike001]

Those laws might apply to US citizens but what about Canadian citizens?
There was an article published on another forum that the laws that are made for the US have nothing to do with Canadian laws. In Canada from what I understand, people have to get an accreditted dog with certification. The dog's vest has pockets with clear plastic so it isn't hard to slip your I.D. card inside. And what woman goes shopping without a purse...lol...?

[borzoimom]

Those laws might apply to US citizens but what about Canadian citizens?
There was an article published on another forum that the laws that are made for the US have nothing to do with Canadian laws. In Canada from what I understand, people have to get an accreditted dog with certification. The dog's vest has pockets with clear plastic so it isn't hard to slip your I.D. card inside. And what woman goes shopping without a purse...lol...?

They have to wear a tag here too. Also- although a vest is not required for a service dog- most do as it also contains information on the owner as well as required health certificates. Also therapy dogs as well. The vest carries the health certificate as well as their tag with their id avid, therapy dog title etc.
Since I havent trained a service dog in many years, the person had to have a service dog id card on their person. ... I sent out a email to a friend that has trained service dogs for years to see what are the current forms of id in addition to the tags.

[NicoleLJ]

In Canada the laws are behind the times. The individual Provinces are in control of the laws pertaining to Service dogs. The only type of Service Dog that is completely protected and given full access rights within the law in Canada are Guide Dogs for the Blind. We have no one governing body for Service dogs in Canada such as the ADA for The States. But just like the States Service Dogs can be Owner Trained and there is no law in Canada Stating they must be certified or carry ID. So all other Service dogs can be refused entry to any business and have been. It is up to the business weather the Service Dog can enter.

"The Canadian Provinces


The Canadian Provinces independently have their own laws that define the rights of disabled persons. Generally, there have been two approaches. Some provinces have a Blind Persons’ Rights Act. These define, fairly specifically, where the disabled person with a dog may go, important considerations in housing, what happens if these rights are violated, and any penalties associated with them. Trainers rights or requirements, licenses or fees, identification requirements, and injury to the dog may also be included. In this respect, some provinces have statutes that are quite similar to those found in the United States. The provinces that have taken this approach include Alberta, British Columbia, Labrador, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Ontario, and Quèbec. While this type of law was originally written to accommodate blind persons, a number of the provinces have broadened their scope through amendments that extend these rights to deaf or hearing impaired and disabled persons.

Another approach is seen in the Human Rights Acts. The Human Rights approach covers a broader issue of discrimination in a much wider section of society. For example, Manitoba includes in its law concern for discrimination in these categories:

(a) ancestry, including colour and perceived race;
(b) nationality or national origin;
(c) ethnic background or origin;
(d) religion or creed, or religious belief, religious association or religious activity;
(e) age;
(f) sex, including pregnancy, the possibility of pregnancy, or circumstances related to pregnancy;
(g) gender-determined characteristics or circumstances other than those included in clause (f);
(h) sexual orientation;
(i) marital or family status;
(j) source of income;
(k) political belief, political association or political activity;
(l) physical or mental disability or related characteristics or circumstances, including reliance on a dog guide or other animal assistant, a wheelchair, or any other remedial appliance or device.

Frequently, in the provinces that rely primarily on this approach, the word “dog” appears only in the definition section of the law. All provinces have a Human Rights Act, but the provinces using this approach to the exclusion of more specific laws for disabled persons, include Manitoba, New Brunswick, Northwest Territories, Prince Edward Island, Saskatchewan, and Yukon."


So as you can see until Canada has a unified standard like the ADA things will remain up to the provinces to decide. It has taken a long time for mobility assisant dogs to be accepted. Autism support dogs are still not accepted and do not share all teh same rigths as a guide dog. Many of us are trying to change this. Canada needs to continue to expaned in its learnign and accepting of all service dogs. Untill then only Guide dog users have complete and full access and rights across Canada.
Nicole

[TamanduaGirl]

Just so you all know in the States Service Dogs do not have to wear any identifying ID or equipment, they do not have to be certified and no business can asked to see ID on the Service Dog. A business can only legally ask 3 questions. Is that a Service Dog? Are you Disabled? What Tasks does your service animal perform? Here some links that may help to answer some of your questions:

http://www.acesinfo.org/questions.htm
http://www.deltasociety.org/home.htm
http://www.iaadp.org/index.html

Nicole & Sheena

good I'm just reading this now and was going to post that if someone didn't

they only let her finish shopping because she refused to leave. Exceptions are for if the business has to make unreasonable acommedations, a giant breed dog or say full sized horse instead of a mini horse guide laying in the middle of an isle at a restaurant causing people to have to climb over or wait, Some people use large breeds but they are trained to "be small", or not being allowed to take a service dog into a petting zoo where it would scare the animals, behaved dog or not, causing a stampede over the little kids present, if it miss behaves. Claiming you or the customers might be scared or uncomfortable isn't good enough unless you litteraly have a phobia where you turn into a screaming crying ect person at the site of one, then maybe, otherwise anyone could keep all service animals out due to discomfort or the possibility of customers getting upset.

[DrKym]

good I'm just reading this now and was going to post that if someone didn't

they only let her finish shopping because she refused to leave. Exceptions are for if the business has to make unreasonable acommedations, a giant breed dog or say full sized horse instead of a mini horse guide laying in the middle of an isle at a restaurant causing people to have to climb over or wait, Some people use large breeds but they are trained to "be small", or not being allowed to take a service dog into a petting zoo where it would scare the animals, behaved dog or not, causing a stampede over the little kids present, if it miss behaves. Claiming you or the customers might be scared or uncomfortable isn't good enough unless you litteraly have a phobia where you turn into a screaming crying ect person at the site of one, then maybe, otherwise anyone could keep all service animals out due to discomfort or the possibility of customers getting upset.

Almost not quite, you can as another customer claim you are allergic, and also threaten to leave, in that scenario, the animal can also be asked to leave.

Your child may have a fear of dogs, if you had been seated first, and the Service animal is causing or will cause undue stress on another patron you can legally be refused service.

If the animal is in a movie theatre and causes a disturbance, barking ,whining, lying in a darkened aisle that may pose a risk to others , you can also be asked to remove the animal.


So actually yes if the other people are impacted in their experience at the merchants in a negative way then it doesn't matter if they are crying or hysterical, simply that they would be impacted negatively, and that if another patron would be asked to leave and was NOT disabled then it is legal to ask them to go. or to refuse service.