Run Hillary Run- bumper sticker thread

[wombat2u2004]

""Why is it fair to tax the wealthy more than the poor? I wish someone would explain that too me....it makes sense in my mind to take the same percentage from everyone...thats fair.""

Maybe it has something to do with fair and equitable distribution of money so that most everyone can live some sort of decent lifestyle.
I believe that lower income earners must pay a lower tax percentage than those in the higher income groups....and I believe THAT is fair. It has been written on this thread that wealthy and successful people have worked hard for what they have, well that may be so in some cases, but not in others. Luck and opportunity play a big role in wealth and success. A lot of people work hard and are not successful or wealthy, do they deserve to pay the same rate of tax as those who are obviously overpaid ???? I think not. I believe that everyone deserves some sort of break, because the danger lies in the wealth gap....the wider the gap becomes betweeen the have's and the have nots, the more trouble your country will be in.
Wombat

[Ceph]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

[Edwina's Secretary]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

Do you know what the so-called death tax is? And who is affected by it? Do you know what the so-called marriage penalty is? When and how it affects people?

Do you have any idea what percent of the population pays a 40% tax rate in the US?

[Ceph]

the numbers were hypothetical...I know out of the 200 I recieve a month for drill pay I only get about half that back between state taxes and federal taxes...I know I had to join the Guard so that I could pay for school...I know we almost lost our house of fifty years when my grandfather died because he had owned it...I know that when my grandmother died my other grandfather could almost lost his house as well because of the taxes.

or maybe I was imagining that....

[Cataholic]

the numbers were hypothetical...I know out of the 200 I recieve a month for drill pay I only get about half that back between state taxes and federal taxes...I know I had to join the Guard so that I could pay for school...I know we almost lost our house of fifty years when my grandfather died because he had owned it...I know that when my grandmother died my other grandfather could almost lost his house as well because of the taxes.

or maybe I was imagining that....

Are you in the US? This would be contra to most probate situations that I know of. I don't think you were imagining it, but, I am not sure you had all of the information.

The Ohio estate tax is $338,000, and the federal is 1 Mil (or thereabouts). Are you suggesting that your grandfather's estate was greater than those amounts? (I imagine Oh would be similar to other states). Cause only IF your grandparents estate (house, and all other stuff) was more than that, would you (or, actually, the estate pays it, from the assets of the estate).

Just think, I actually charge people for this information. You are getting it for free.
Just curious.

[sparks19]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

THANK YOU.

People that make more money are already paying MORE taxes then the middle or lower class folk. Like stated above 40% of nothing is NOTHING, but 40% of a lot is A LOT.

So do you think we should tax them enough so that it brings them down the the middle and lower class level? should we all make the same money? Thats what it sounds like to me.

I said that lower income people are lazy? LOL hmmm don't recall saying those words but ok. I am the middle lower class people I refer too. I COULD have gone to college for a better career but instead I want to do something that I like... not just something that makes me money. My husband makes a pretty decent wage but he worked HARD for it. he spent 12 years inthe army and got his education while in the army. I have a friend who was inthe marines for 12+ years. he never took advantage of the schooling option and now he whines and complains that uncle sam isn't giving him a hand out for his service. AH well he had a perfectly good opportunity to get a good education so that he could have a decent job when he got out but he didn't and that is no one's fault but his own.

You don't get a CEO position as soon as you step into a company. it takes years and years of hard work to move up to such a position and I think they deserve the money they make.... they earned it. But screw them, I don't want anyone making more than me so lets tax them so that they can only make as much as I do

Sorry, whether it is luck, hard work, or whatever.... people should NOT be punished for being successful. In this nation in this day and age everyone has an opportunity to succeed. Some do and some don't. life's tough.... wear a helmet. I just refuse to believe that it is right to charge more taxes to those that are lucky enough to make the money they do. YOu know these CEO's don't work a 9-5 monday to friday job like the rest of us. they usually have to put in 60-80 hours a week despite what you believe about the wealthy.

My uncle is a regional manager for McDonalds. YES McDonalds. It was his first job. he started out minimum wage but he stuck with the company and now he gets a big fat pay cheque because he worked hard to get where he is. Now he can provide his family with everything he wanted to be able to give them. A nice home, nice stuff, and loving parents. he has 4 children. So should he be taxed much more than the rest of us? I don't think so. He put up with the minimum wage, the bull crap of being on the bottom of the "food chain" but he stuck it out to get where he is. I see so many people that say "UGh I quit this job because they weren't paying me what I think I should be paid. or they didn't treat me like they treat the higher ups" or what have you. You have to work to move up. We all have to do things we don't like in order to make the money we feel we deserve.

As for the death tax.... I hate that crap. I think the death tax should be done away with. the government has already taxed the money and those goods once.... it is not right to tax it again. IMO.

[Ceph]

lol, thank you...you said it better then me...it keeps on getting garbled when I try to say things. My grandad's estate was worth over 1m because he was a successful doctor and had his own practice and a house in an area that was rapidly growing. After Dad inherited the house and Uncle Max inherited the practice there was nothing left at all. I dont know how it is in other states, but MD has a lower exclusion than alot of other states.

And I dunno...its not really fair that it got taxed while he was alive and then taxed again.

and there, I have said my piece....It may be different in other states, but at least that is how it is here.

[sparks19]

lol, thank you...you said it better then me...it keeps on getting garbled when I try to say things. My grandad's estate was worth over 1m because he was a successful doctor and had his own practice and a house in an area that was rapidly growing. After Dad inherited the house and Uncle Max inherited the practice there was nothing left at all. I dont know how it is in other states, but MD has a lower exclusion than alot of other states.

And I dunno...its not really fair that it got taxed while he was alive and then taxed again.

and there, I have said my piece....It may be different in other states, but at least that is how it is here.

My husband and I were talking about this. When his dad passes away he has a substantial amount of money saved and in his insurance to give to his two kids and his wife. He earned quite a decent amount of money during his lifetime. he was/is a nuclear technician. But they didn't live a life of luxury. He used what he had to to provide for his family. They had good food a nice home and things of that sort but every extra cent went into a fund to leave to his family when he passes. (should we tax him extra because he makes more money than the rest of us even though that money is going to provide for his family when he passes on? Seems many of you think so. YES let's gyp his family so that we don't have to pay as much tax as him)

now he has already paid taxes on that money. Actually twice. he pays taxes on the funds he has saved up and he paid taxes when he first got the money in his pay chq. NOW they want to tax it again when he passes on and they deal out his estate. Why should the government be able to tax it three times? the tax on that money and those goods has already been paid. it is wrong to take money from his family that has already been taxed just because it is "changing hands"

[Ceph]

My dad thinks its punishment - and he is helping to support (with our assitance too) two kids going to college on a little over 45K yearly....He's paying plenty of taxes, and like me (lol, I know parental raising has something to do with how you view the world).

Believe me, its pretty easy to get by on 20 and 30K.

Edit : oops, I was wrong, He makes closer to 4, sorry about that...it just gets taxed way down (house, FICA, Federal and State)....There are a few places in my area - mostly the county housing that I actually wouldnt have to much trouble surviving on a military paycheck...it is possible...just in the right places.

[wombat2u2004]

You've hit the nail right on the head old mate....you are so right.
Wombat

My Dad sent 5 kids to college (most of us took out Federal loans) on less than 12K a year. Believe me, a "gravedigger" didn't make much money in the 60's.

No-one "likes" paying taxes, but I am sure that the government didn't get rich off my Dad's paycheck. I am also sure that he was thankful that his "fair share" was a slightly less % than the CEO's of the Cemetery.

[sparks19]

Sparks,

you keep saying that but no-one is suggesting any such thing!!! And no one (but you) classifies this practice as punishment. I have done well some years and not so well others - in the more prosperous years, I had no problem paying a slightly higher % of my good fortune. And in my leaner years, I have appreciated the slight reduction I paid as a percentage. I am not sure why people keep putting out numbers like 50 and 60% and suggesting that those who are making 30,000 get away with not paying anything. The range is more like 25-35%. I could go on, but I will hold off for a maybe later post.

then I must be misinterpreting the posts saying that rich people should pay more in taxes then the little people. I was just using those numbers as an example. Just saying that if I am taxed 40% (not saying that I AM just using the number as an example) I don't think it is fair that the next higher up bracket should pay 50% or the next highest should pay 60%. Again these numbers are only for examples. Again, if we are going to make people who are better off pay the highest percentage then why don't we just send them our medical bills. Everyone should pay the same percentage. If you make 10,000 your percentage will equal out to a small fraction. if you make 1,000,000 your percentage will equal out to a lot more money going into taxes. they already pay more then the lower class. why should they pay even MORE than that. LOL what if those people in the higher tax bracket have 12 kids to support? should they pay less tax then?

this is the impression I have gotten from previous posts. that those who make more money should pay a higher percentage of tax. I disagree.

Ceph, it really is. I keep seeing people say that they ONLY make 20,000 and it's almost impossible to get by. How is that possible? In all my life I don't think I have ever had a job that I made more than 25,000 per year. I am able to survive just fine on that. You just have to live a more moderate exsistence. YOu don't go out and buy the most expensive care... or the biggest house. Live by your means and 20,000 provides a fine living.

My mother (a single mother) never made much money yet I always had a nice house to live in, clean clothes on my back and good food on the table. What more do you need?

[Ceph]

^
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what she said

[borzoimom]

As far as making 25 grand a year as being comfortable, in this area- look at these average household earnings. No way in the world could anyone survive on 25 grand in this area- no way.. And Loudon county is one of the highest paid, and fastest growing counties in the US...
A person making 25 grand in like Fairfax county would be all but bankrupt- where as I am sure there are other parts of the country that would work..http://www.co.loudoun.va.us/business...y_2004/b_2.pdf

[Pembroke_Corgi]

then I must be misinterpreting the posts saying that rich people should pay more in taxes then the little people. I was just using those numbers as an example. Just saying that if I am taxed 40% (not saying that I AM just using the number as an example) I don't think it is fair that the next higher up bracket should pay 50% or the next highest should pay 60%. Again these numbers are only for examples. Again, if we are going to make people who are better off pay the highest percentage then why don't we just send them our medical bills. Everyone should pay the same percentage. If you make 10,000 your percentage will equal out to a small fraction. if you make 1,000,000 your percentage will equal out to a lot more money going into taxes. they already pay more then the lower class. why should they pay even MORE than that. LOL what if those people in the higher tax bracket have 12 kids to support? should they pay less tax then?

this is the impression I have gotten from previous posts. that those who make more money should pay a higher percentage of tax. I disagree.

Ceph, it really is. I keep seeing people say that they ONLY make 20,000 and it's almost impossible to get by. How is that possible? In all my life I don't think I have ever had a job that I made more than 25,000 per year. I am able to survive just fine on that. You just have to live a more moderate exsistence. YOu don't go out and buy the most expensive care... or the biggest house. Live by your means and 20,000 provides a fine living.

My mother (a single mother) never made much money yet I always had a nice house to live in, clean clothes on my back and good food on the table. What more do you need?

Well, the rich DON'T pay a higher percentage of their income in most taxes, that is the point. For example, SS taxes are only taken out of the first $90,000 or so of your income. I'm not sure exactly what the figures are, but I think they take roughly 10% for SS. That means, if I make $25,000/year I pay on 100% of my income, etc, but if I make $250,000 a year, I pay SS tax on roughly 36% of my income. Is that "fair?" No.

And most rich people have such good tax lawyers, etc, I'm sure that very few pay "fairly." Also, most truly needy people probably don't pay many income taxes, if any at all. It's the middle class that carries the burden- is that "fair?"

Also, I'm not going to make judgments on how much money per year is "enough," but keep in mind, $20,000 in Pennsylvania goes a lot further than $20,000 in California.

[Ceph]

I think the problem isnt so much the federal taxes though now that I look at it....It's mostly FICA taxes...For the first time I really Looked at my LES and FICA and State taxes where what was taking the majority out of my pay.

Now, I need help...can someone tell me how the FICA taxes change from Tax bracket to bracket, because that I really dont know.