Run Hillary Run- bumper sticker thread

[Pembroke_Corgi]

AH yes but remember.....

You may be paying for it right now but if they socialize medicine your taxes
will have to sky rocket. After all, they have to pay for it somehow and it certainly isn't going to come out of their pockets. it's going to come out of yours. Like I said, in Ontario they tax almost half of your pay cheque and then you pay an extra 15% sales tax on everything you buy.... including nessecities. So those people on minimum wage that can't afford health care now will not be able to afford to live because the government is going to tax them out the wazoo. We are experiencing this exact problem in ontario right now. Minimum wage people can't afford to live because for one they make minimum wage and two the governemtn is taking over 50% of their money in pay cheque taxes and sales taxes. You must pay taxes on food and clothing too. 15%. Oh sorry.... it's 14% now that harper is in parliment. and they STILL can't afford the health care system. So it really isn't that much better a solution. Either way the people that can't afford it are still going to be paying for it.... except NOW you will paying for it whether you are using their services or not.

Have you ever heard the saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?" This is true in the health care industry- meaning, people who can't afford to see a doctor wait until their symptoms/problem are way more difficult and costly to cure. This adds strain on our health care system- as does administrative costs associated with different insurances, etc. According to this source, administrative costs could account for nearly 24% of total health care costs.

And actually, the USA spends the MOST money of any country in the world on health care per capita. And as for the problem of low-wage earners being taxed, well, the solution is simple: tax the rich more than the poor. They have the "bigger piece" of that pie that is supposed to trickle down somehow so that's one way. Also, I read an article that health care premiums have risen about 5,000% in the last ten years, so I'm not really worried about being taxed- the premiums are just as high if not higher. Plus, that way ALL Americans could be covered, not just ones with cushy jobs.

[borzoimom]

But socialized heath care is based on a tax per dollar- not like an income tax- its taxper dollar... It doesnt work- and you are stuck with waiting for the doctor to move you though a level of paper process that is slower than molassass in Vermont in January...

[sparks19]

Have you ever heard the saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?" This is true in the health care industry- meaning, people who can't afford to see a doctor wait until their symptoms/problem are way more difficult and costly to cure. This adds strain on our health care system- as does administrative costs associated with different insurances, etc. According to this source, administrative costs could account for nearly 24% of total health care costs.

And actually, the USA spends the MOST money of any country in the world on health care per capita. And as for the problem of low-wage earners being taxed, well, the solution is simple: tax the rich more than the poor. They have the "bigger piece" of that pie that is supposed to trickle down somehow so that's one way. Also, I read an article that health care premiums have risen about 5,000% in the last ten years, so I'm not really worried about being taxed- the premiums are just as high if not higher. Plus, that way ALL Americans could be covered, not just ones with cushy jobs.

AHHH so we should punish people for being successful? typical. I think THAT is crap. So because my husband and I worked are butts off to get where we are and make the money we do we should be punished for it because some people didn't do the same? We are far from rich but we are also far from poor. Because of that we should have to pay everyone else's way? I despise that way of thinking. Why should people be punished for being successful? You start doing that and people will stop being successful becuase they will end up making more money working minimum wage jobs and then where will we be? Although that seems to be Hillary's line of thinking as well.... as long as you aren't taking her money from her. I just don't get that.... take money from people who earned it just because they worked hard to get where they are. How about this.... instead of socialized medicine how about we just send everyone's medical bills to the rich people and they can pay them. does that sound fair? I truly hope you don't say yes.

Not to mention..... how much do you thinkt hey will have to raise taxes to pay Dr's enough so they can pay enough for insurance because of the OUTRAGEOUS settlements they are awarding people for a cut finger. Do you know on average how much a Dr has to pay for malpractice insurance each year? it ain't cheap. But that's ok... we just let the well off people foot the bill right?

yes I have heard that saying. but I have also witnessed socialized medicine first hand. NOW people can go to the Dr whenever they like for anything they like no matter how trivial. NOW Dr's don't care... they don't want to do the tests for something more serious because 9 times out of 10 it's nothing. Now no Dr's are taking patients because they are overloaded with the patients they have. Now you must wait hours and hours to get into a walk in clinic or an emergency room because people are there for the sniffles or a scraped knee. NOW the medical system is just a rotating door.... get them in and get them out as fast as you can. ZERO personal care.... ZERO intiative to take a closer look. The only extra money they make is from drug companies who want Dr's to peddle their product... and the Drs do very willingly. It doesn't solve the problem but it sure gets the patients out of the office for a day or two.

here is a better idea.... regulate how much someone can get for malpractice suits. Millions of dollars for a cut finger that got infected becuase you didn't take care of it is ridiculous. If it is BLATANT malpractice then by all means you should get money for your medical bills, missed time at work, and perhaps some for pain and suffering but I don't know ANYONE that felt better after getting millions from a Dr. THAT is what causes medical rates to go up so much. At least that is a big part of it. Regulate it. Insurance costs will go down, Dr's won't have to charge as much and we won't have to pay as much. but socialized medicine does NOT work. Just because the US has money does not mean it will work for you. You also have millions more people than any other country. those millions of people are going to start seeking medical help for everything and thus clogging up the entire system for those who really need it.

[RICHARD]

Not to mention..... how much do you thinkt hey will have to raise taxes to pay Dr's enough so they can pay enough for insurance because of the OUTRAGEOUS settlements they are awarding people for a cut finger. Do you know on average how much a Dr has to pay for malpractice insurance each year? it ain't cheap. But that's ok... we just let the well off people foot the bill right?

Now you must wait hours and hours to get into a walk in clinic or an emergency room because people are there for the sniffles or a scraped knee. NOW the medical system is just a rotating door.... get them in and get them out as fast as you can. ZERO personal care.... ZERO intiative to take a closer look. The only extra money they make is from drug companies who want Dr's to peddle their product... and the Drs do very willingly. It doesn't solve the problem but it sure gets the patients out of the office for a day or two.

You are on the button.

Medicine/drug research and law are the three reasons that medicine in the U.S. sucks.

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Mitt's got charm. which more than I can say for the other fence straddlers.

I was at an event when they ran the torch to SLC and he was there as the SLCOOC head.

He was articulate, friendly had some of the tools to be the prez already in place.

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Does Barack have a middle name?

[Pembroke_Corgi]

AHHH so we should punish people for being successful? typical. I think THAT is crap. So because my husband and I worked are butts off to get where we are and make the money we do we should be punished for it because some people didn't do the same? We are far from rich but we are also far from poor. Because of that we should have to pay everyone else's way? I despise that way of thinking. Why should people be punished for being successful? You start doing that and people will stop being successful becuase they will end up making more money working minimum wage jobs and then where will we be? Although that seems to be Hillary's line of thinking as well.... as long as you aren't taking her money from her. I just don't get that.... take money from people who earned it just because they worked hard to get where they are. How about this.... instead of socialized medicine how about we just send everyone's medical bills to the rich people and they can pay them. does that sound fair? I truly hope you don't say yes.

Oh, now I understand. Wealthier people work harder for their money. So therefore, they deserve access to a doctor, and insurance for their children. Poor people are just lazier and that's why they don't need to have basic health needs met. But wait- they might have to use public programs like Medicaid to suck all us hardworking, deserving Americans dry. Gosh, I guess you could make the argument that instead of fairly taxing the rich, we should really just tax the poor more to pay for stuff we hard working people need. And we sure could use more money for that war in Iraq.

[Ceph]

Oh, now I understand. Wealthier people work harder for their money. So therefore, they deserve access to a doctor, and insurance for their children. Poor people are just lazier and that's why they don't need to have basic health needs met. But wait- they might have to use public programs like Medicaid to suck all us hardworking, deserving Americans dry. Gosh, I guess you could make the argument that instead of fairly taxing the rich, we should really just tax the poor more to pay for stuff we hard working people need. And we sure could use more money for that war in Iraq.

Why is it fair to tax the wealthy more than the poor? I wish someone would explain that too me....it makes sense in my mind to take the same percentage from everyone...thats fair.

Oh, btw, that money for Iraq partially went to paying those well paid soldiers who are working to protect their nation...those soldiers who are in more liklihood getting less money a year than most people here. But naw, they shouldn't get paid should they...or even better....lets pay them less....its not like they are working all that hard...its not like they are being injured, dying and coming home under the flag. So when you are making statements regarding the poor and then statements about money going into Iraq...do try to remember that a large population of those poor...those who arent paid a whole lot, are being paid by that money going towards Iraq. Or do they not deserve it because they're soldiers?

~Ceph

[wombat2u2004]

""Why is it fair to tax the wealthy more than the poor? I wish someone would explain that too me....it makes sense in my mind to take the same percentage from everyone...thats fair.""

Maybe it has something to do with fair and equitable distribution of money so that most everyone can live some sort of decent lifestyle.
I believe that lower income earners must pay a lower tax percentage than those in the higher income groups....and I believe THAT is fair. It has been written on this thread that wealthy and successful people have worked hard for what they have, well that may be so in some cases, but not in others. Luck and opportunity play a big role in wealth and success. A lot of people work hard and are not successful or wealthy, do they deserve to pay the same rate of tax as those who are obviously overpaid ???? I think not. I believe that everyone deserves some sort of break, because the danger lies in the wealth gap....the wider the gap becomes betweeen the have's and the have nots, the more trouble your country will be in.
Wombat

[Ceph]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

[Edwina's Secretary]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

Do you know what the so-called death tax is? And who is affected by it? Do you know what the so-called marriage penalty is? When and how it affects people?

Do you have any idea what percent of the population pays a 40% tax rate in the US?

[sparks19]

That still doesnt sound right to me. lets say everyone is paying....oh say, 40% accross the board. Those that make 2000 a month (averagish for the military) are going to pay less than those who make 10000 a month because that is how percentages work....you're saying those who make 10000 should get charged what? 60%. Because they make a more...again, that doesnt strike me as fair, or right.

Or, we could do something useful like getting rid of the death tax or the marriage penalty....that might help some people out.

~Ceph

THANK YOU.

People that make more money are already paying MORE taxes then the middle or lower class folk. Like stated above 40% of nothing is NOTHING, but 40% of a lot is A LOT.

So do you think we should tax them enough so that it brings them down the the middle and lower class level? should we all make the same money? Thats what it sounds like to me.

I said that lower income people are lazy? LOL hmmm don't recall saying those words but ok. I am the middle lower class people I refer too. I COULD have gone to college for a better career but instead I want to do something that I like... not just something that makes me money. My husband makes a pretty decent wage but he worked HARD for it. he spent 12 years inthe army and got his education while in the army. I have a friend who was inthe marines for 12+ years. he never took advantage of the schooling option and now he whines and complains that uncle sam isn't giving him a hand out for his service. AH well he had a perfectly good opportunity to get a good education so that he could have a decent job when he got out but he didn't and that is no one's fault but his own.

You don't get a CEO position as soon as you step into a company. it takes years and years of hard work to move up to such a position and I think they deserve the money they make.... they earned it. But screw them, I don't want anyone making more than me so lets tax them so that they can only make as much as I do

Sorry, whether it is luck, hard work, or whatever.... people should NOT be punished for being successful. In this nation in this day and age everyone has an opportunity to succeed. Some do and some don't. life's tough.... wear a helmet. I just refuse to believe that it is right to charge more taxes to those that are lucky enough to make the money they do. YOu know these CEO's don't work a 9-5 monday to friday job like the rest of us. they usually have to put in 60-80 hours a week despite what you believe about the wealthy.

My uncle is a regional manager for McDonalds. YES McDonalds. It was his first job. he started out minimum wage but he stuck with the company and now he gets a big fat pay cheque because he worked hard to get where he is. Now he can provide his family with everything he wanted to be able to give them. A nice home, nice stuff, and loving parents. he has 4 children. So should he be taxed much more than the rest of us? I don't think so. He put up with the minimum wage, the bull crap of being on the bottom of the "food chain" but he stuck it out to get where he is. I see so many people that say "UGh I quit this job because they weren't paying me what I think I should be paid. or they didn't treat me like they treat the higher ups" or what have you. You have to work to move up. We all have to do things we don't like in order to make the money we feel we deserve.

As for the death tax.... I hate that crap. I think the death tax should be done away with. the government has already taxed the money and those goods once.... it is not right to tax it again. IMO.

[Ceph]

lol, again, hypothetical numbers....not real...fake...there to try and put accross what I was saying.

And I dont pretend to be an accountant either (or very good with numbers...the military helps me keep it stimple)...most of the kind of accounting I know if corporate accounting, and I dont know that all that well either. I just think that everyone should get taxed the same....thats it....nothing more...I promise.

Edit : just on a side note - the last drill I had was a MUTA - 2...made half of what I usually make...my yearly income from the guard is about 3K, and I got 22% removed in taxes (FICA, State, and Federal)....but because they are paying for college I limp by on the quite well actually. I dont know if I am crazy or not, but I do know math...and I am pretty sure those tax brackets dont fit on me so well.

[sparks19]

50K is limping by? Yikes. then we are definately in the lowest tax bracket. Of course right now my husband is the only one that makes money. i work for free rent since I rent my boss's house. I work enough hours to pay the rent and I just don't get a pay cheque. Of course, due to "child" support (no children involved but the ex is very much like a child lol) my hubby is bringing home far less than that. around 55k a year minus $550 a month for alimony until June. but I wouldn't consider myself poor by any means. We live quite a comfortable exsistence. Of course most of that money is also going towards more immigration stuff and dr;s fees for prenatal care since I don't have health insurance here. but even after all that we are still living comfortably and wouldn't consider us downtrodden or poor or less fortunate.

the bills get paid and we still have enough to do the things we enjoy. of course not all of those things cost money. We also don't own or need a 65,000 dollar vehicle, a pool, a huge house with all the trimmings to be happy.

that is one thing I have noticed lately. In fact, a few months ago (I don't know the specifics) but after the PA senate gave themselves a HEFTY pay raise... everyone raised heck because they make enough already. You know what their defense was? We need to make this much because we have to send our kids to college and we have to survive. instead of redistributing the unused tax dollars that I feel are rightfully ours and should be redistributed they gave it to themselves.

that just shows how out of touch with the real world these people are. If they need to make that much money to survive how do the rest of us survive and send our kids to college. Perhaps if they got rid of their summer homes.... their big expensive vehicles..... and lived a normal exsistence they wouldn't have to make that much to "survive"