Pomeranians

[applesmom]

The question is:

Why is it that Poms you see in dog shows and Poms that are not literally look different?

The answer is: Pet poms like many other breeds are being mass produced by irresponsible "breeders" and purchased by uninformed pet owners who care nothing about the standard; just supply and demand.

[mike001]

I second that, plus everything Borzoid explained. Doesn't mean the show dogs are better. I think Lute's picture is adorable.

[finn's mom]

Most of the dogs you see in shows are perfect examples of the breed standard for show dogs. But, when you're talking about working dogs or pet dogs, it's usually a lot different. Even looking at labs or border collies, the difference is vast. They all have their pros and cons and they're all beautiful in different ways. It's not necessarily bad breeding that produces pet quality dogs, though. Some good, reputable breeders don't necessarily just breed dogs that will be in shows.

[TFTpwnsYou]

I second that, plus everything Borzoid explained. Doesn't mean the show dogs are better. I think Lute's picture is adorable.

I think it's adorable too. I think the pet Poms look better than the show Poms. They don't look like a cotton ball....lol. And as Borzoimom said they're probably better off as well.

[applesmom]

I second that, plus everything Borzoid explained. Doesn't mean the show dogs are better. I think Lute's picture is adorable.

Of course show dogs aren't any better than the pets-unless they're going to be shown or bred to perpetuate the breed standard. However the breed standards are being completely ignored for the sake of greed and the public's desire for purebreds.

Why even have a breed standard if the majority of the pet owning public doesn't know or care about it?

[Ginger's Mom]

But, I have a question...pardon my ignorance, but has the breed standard changed? By that I mean, I remember Poms being much bigger dogs. It has only been in the last say 15 years that they seem to have become pocket puppies. Did the standard call for a larger, sturdier dog at one time? I honestly don't know if it did or didn't, I am just asking.

[applesmom]

But, I have a question...pardon my ignorance, but has the breed standard changed? By that I mean, I remember Poms being much bigger dogs. It has only been in the last say 15 years that they seem to have become pocket puppies. Did the standard call for a larger, sturdier dog at one time? I honestly don't know if it did or didn't, I am just asking.

Since 1935 the weight requirement of the breed has remained the same; from 3 to 7 pounds.

[theterrierman]

The original Poms were a 30 lb. herding dog, similar to the German Spitz or Keeshond. My guess would be that most dogs you see come from backyard breeders or puppy mills, and represent dogs who have been refined less from the original stock, therefore you may have throwbacks to the original type. Also in mills, there is a possibility of an accidental mix, because different males could be housed in a cage with one female, or you could have a multiple-sire litter.

[applesmom]

The original 1916 parent club standard did not mention weight. That standard was revised in 1935 and still didn't mention weight.

The other revisions were in 1960, 1980 and 1991. The 1960 and 1980 revisions state; "Size - The weight of a Pomeranian for exhibition is 3 pounds to 7 pounds. The ideal size for show specimens is from 4 to 5 pounds."

The 1991 revision is the same: Size, Proportion, Substance - Size - The weight of the Pomeranian for exhibition is from three to seven pounds. The ideal size for show specimens is four to five pounds.

I found it interesting that the standard particularly states, "for show specimens"; which seems to indicate a that a fairly large disparity in breed size is pretty common--but they just can't be shown.

They also list major faults but no disqualifications.

These points lead one to believe that they must be a difficult breed to breed true!

[Ginger's Mom]

Thanks, Borzoimom. I was just reading the link to AKC and I notice that the breed standard listed there was approved in December 1996 and put into effect January 31, 1997, but I have no idea what change that may have allowed for (it could have added another color coat or something). However, I also read the history and according to that even in the early 1900's most of the show dogs weighed under 6 pounds, so I guess it is just that I saw more backyard breeder dogs than actual show dogs.

ETA: Oops, thanks applesmom, I must have missed your post (while reading the other screen I guess) That does answer alot. Thank you.

[borzoimom]

But, I have a question...pardon my ignorance, but has the breed standard changed? By that I mean, I remember Poms being much bigger dogs. It has only been in the last say 15 years that they seem to have become pocket puppies. Did the standard call for a larger, sturdier dog at one time? I honestly don't know if it did or didn't, I am just asking.

They do change the standards, but I forgot when the last time it was they changed it. Could have been quite awhile ago. I will do some research and let you know.
They keep saying they are going to change the written standard in the Borzoi- the main reason is the height requirements. The current standards are now considered way too small and in 2010 the Silken Windhound will be added and the current standard that was reviewed shows a silken wildhound tops at the bottom of the Borzoi. They are trying to avoid the beagle situation that occured in 1957 when they seperated the sizes. You can have a 15 inch and a 13 inch in the same litter... We do not want that in the Borzoi.

[borzoimom]

Here is the beginning of the history- still looking for when it changed.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomeranian_(dog)

[borzoimom]

Here is another one- they are saying 1909... http://www.barkbytes.com/history/pomran.htm