Staffs are they all vicious???

[kittycats_delight]

I just wondered if staffs (we dont have pit bulls in england as they are a banned breed.) were naturally vicious, as most of you have ferociously argued they are not, I'm quite happy to accept that this is true but I had to ask the question.

I just want to make a comment on this. American Staffordshire Terriers are classed by the UKC as American Pitbull Terriers. So this Staffie you seen attacked the queen's swan is considered a pitbull and is banned as per your own comments. Therefore I guess this should tell you something about the owner right???

[Jadapit]

Its always the same 2 doing the bashing...just ignore it, we aren't going to undo ignorance.

So true. This is why I dont come to PT much anymore. There seems to be a pit bull bashing thread at least once a month. I'm sure these people would not like it if I came on and bashed the breed they love.

I dont have any problems with Ebony (my pit bull) at all. She honestly is a very good girl. We walk by other dogs all the time she shows no aggression towards them. Would she go after a swan? Probably. But many, many dogs would go after a bird and kill it not just pit bulls or staffies.

If you dont have control of your dog you should NOT let him/ her off leash or even be out and about walking with them. In the end its usually always the owners fault, not the dogs. Some people will never get that.

[DrKym]

My breeds do get bashed, and no Staffies aren't my breed, neither are Pitties.

I have my own experiences with them, as posted in other threads. I cannot stand by and allow misinformation to be spouted as fact. I realize that it may be futile, however I believe that if one person stops and rethinks, then it was worth it. Yes I feel like I am repeating myself. Yes the same things keep getting said. Yes it seems as if it is the same 2.

Do I want to own a Pit or a Staffie? Nope, I don't want any terrier breed, not even a yorkie, but I will defend the breeds, and the owners rights to have them. Provided they are in loving , responsible homes. Oh yeah I feel that way about ANY breed. Just as you can see people who will give up everything extra in their lives to spend the time needed in their pups life to give them a solid foundation and a great head start at being a wonderful addition to the dog community at large. You can also see people that won't.
Same holds true for ANY dog, regardless of breed. Some will strive with everything they have to be Wonderdog, some won't. It isn't the breed, it is the personality and mind of each individual.Regardless of Breed, Creed, Race or income levels.

I will reiterate, ALL dogs can bite, most choose not to. ALL breeds have been dinked with by us, for us, to make our lives better, easier, happier, whatever the reasons were. It is up to us to know this, to research this, and to provide any breed we choose with the proper home, and job for it's function. You wouldn't expect a Shitzu to sled pull, you should not expect a terrier not to chase or dig.

Just my 2 cents, and with as many times as I have posted here, I guess it is now my dollars worth.

[cyber-sibes]

Dr, Goodnow, you have dobies, right? I remember thirty years ago the buzz was "Dobies are vicious attack dogs. You can't own them for a pet." This was when large numbers of dobies were shown on TV as yard dogs behind fences & runnng around in movies being aggresive- of course this is ridiculous. I also recall when rottis, boxers, and GSD's were all viewed as too aggresive to be good pets. These breed prejudices come & go. Sadly it seems to be the pitties turn. Everyone seems to forget that it was a pittie that played "Pete", the beloved companion of the Little Rascals.

[DrKym]

Dr, Goodnow, you have dobies, right? I remember thirty years ago the buzz was "Dobies are vicious attack dogs. You can't own them for a pet." This was when large numbers of dobies were shown on TV as yard dogs behind fences & runnng around in movies being aggresive- of course this is ridiculous. I also recall when rottis, boxers, and GSD's were all viewed as too aggresive to be good pets. These breed prejudices come & go. Sadly it seems to be the pitties turn. Everyone seems to forget that it was a pittie that played "Pete", the beloved companion of the Little Rascals.

Yes Pam I have Dobies, they are unfortunately still viewed as vicious. Ask my city council. I raised trained and showed Rotties for nearly 20 yrs. They too still have a stigma. I agree that it seems to be in cycles, the difference here is simply other than the Rotties which did get a lot of press in the early 90's , as they were the drug lords dog of choice then. Owners rights to love and keep their animals haven't been threatened.

Yes it costs us more to insure our rotties and Dobies, if only the insurance knew my cocker is more apt to nail someone. However, there are no laws in effect stopping me from owning my breeds. Pitties can be a dangerous animal, so can my dobes. I would bet pushed far enough your Husky could too, even though they are known not to be a "guard" dog type.

Maybe 5 years from now we will see ourselves having this same thread with another breed. That when the issue of the breed dies down and the same amount of energy is put into correcting the problem, that this breed is being exploited for. Read drug lords choice of breed this decade. then people like my daughter, Jadas Mom, and several others I know can be left in peace to love their breed and recieve that back from their companions. Until then I will fight for their rights to love their family members without interference.

Hug those beautiful Huskies for me, Lord knows I don't have the energy to own your breed! But I love looking at them!

Kym

[caseysmom]

So true. This is why I dont come to PT much anymore. There seems to be a pit bull bashing thread at least once a month. I'm sure these people would not like it if I came on and bashed the breed they love.

I dont have any problems with Ebony (my pit bull) at all. She honestly is a very good girl. We walk by other dogs all the time she shows no aggression towards them. Would she go after a swan? Probably. But many, many dogs would go after a bird and kill it not just pit bulls or staffies.

If you dont have control of your dog you should NOT let him/ her off leash or even be out and about walking with them. In the end its usually always the owners fault, not the dogs. Some people will never get that.

Please don't stay away from this huge community because of 2 people, you know the rest of us love your girls.

[mike001]

I wanted to get everyone's responses on this subject and I did. What I don't understand is that most of you foster the blame unto the owners who own pitts. No one seems to realize that these dogs were originally bred to kill bulls in the ring. They would clamp their jaws on a bull's jugular and not release until the bull died. This is an awfully hard trait to breed out of an animal. I've also noticed that on some forums if a child is mauled it's the child's fault, or again, the child and the owner. Why is it never the dog's fault? From what I gather pitts are banned in Ontario and many other places, there has to be a reason for this. I fully agree that any dog can bite, even Shepherds, Dobes, R otties, etc. But these breeds release when told to, a pitt will never release. I'm just wondering with all the controversy and the banning of pitts, why anyone would choose that breed in the first place. There are so many other loveable breeds to choose from that won't have you constantly watching for the dog's next move??? I have read and watched on the news too many maulings from these dogs to feel comfortable with them. To me a child's life is always more important than a dog's. Any human life comes first in my mind.
I've never put the blame on an owner or a child for a pitt attack, most were dedicated owners who thought their dogs were "safe". I see it as tempting fate when owning a pitt. Just my opinion, but things do happen.

[DrKym]

I wanted to get everyone's responses on this subject and I did. What I don't understand is that most of you foster the blame unto the owners who own pitts. No one seems to realize that these dogs were originally bred to kill bulls in the ring. They would clamp their jaws on a bull's jugular and not release until the bull died. This is an awfully hard trait to breed out of an animal. I've also noticed that on some forums if a child is mauled it's the child's fault, or again, the child and the owner. Why is it never the dog's fault? From what I gather pitts are banned in Ontario and many other places, there has to be a reason for this. I fully agree that any dog can bite, even Shepherds, Dobes, R otties, etc. But these breeds release when told to, a pitt will never release. I'm just wondering with all the controversy and the banning of pitts, why anyone would choose that breed in the first place. There are so many other loveable breeds to choose from that won't have you constantly watching for the dog's next move??? I have read and watched on the news too many maulings from these dogs to feel comfortable with them. To me a child's life is always more important than a dog's. Any human life comes first in my mind.
I've never put the blame on an owner or a child for a pitt attack, most were dedicated owners who thought their dogs were "safe". I see it as tempting fate when owning a pitt. Just my opinion, but things do happen.

If you had read everyones responses, then you would not have posted this.

Rottweilers were bred to pull wagons of meat, they are draft dogs. They were also used as guardians because of their size and strength.

Dobermanns, Michelle are bred as a PERSONAL protection dog. Their function is to kill a threat to its' ONE master.

German Shepherds, were not only herding dogs but War dogs,

Staffies weren't bred to "fight" bulls, they were bred to kill the bull when the Human fighter failed. They were also used by the way to rid the farmer and owners land of large vermin.

As for "watching the dogs next move"??? I spend a hell of a lot more time watching my Cocker than I do my kids Staffies, or my dobies.

I also watch closely the JRT next door as he has 9 dead animals to his name and 4 bitten kids, but hey who wants to talk bad about Wishbone? or Eddie?

[Miss Z]

I hope no one takes this wrong, but of course they are born to kill, as is every meat-eating animal on the planet! That's why they have long sharp teeth.

Whoops, I guess I forgot to re-read the meaning of my post! What I meant to say was that no matter what the reputation is, any dog's mind is not consantly occupied by the drive of catching and killing. I suppose that's what you get for trying to write posts at nearly midnight after a long school day.

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I read through both of yours and Kym's posts and really, it's a little childish bringing such matters down to bantering between our genders.

As for the whole situation of pit bulls and the likewise breeds here in the UK, as far as I'm aware it's illegal to breed and sell pit bulls and staffies etc, but not illegal to buy or own one. I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not so someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

I do, however, believe this thread has gone way off topic and it's a real shame to see fracturelines appearing once again in PT's general friendly nature. I think perhaps it would be a good idea if we go and cool down, hug a pet, then come back and think about how nasty posts may affect our fellow Pet Talkers.

[Kfamr]

There is a HUGE difference between PREY DRIVE (going after a swan) and aggression/being vicious (going after something for no reason.)

And that is all I will comment on because this thread had gotten incredibly childish.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, I really didnt realise what a can of worms I was opening. It seems a really touchy subject. Som people seem really hardcore in their opinions but some have been kind and rational, especially you, thanks again.

[borzoimom]

gwen- The fact is- each dog was bred for a purpose- a sighthound will chase, a doberman is personal protection and a pit will fight a bull 1/10th its size- then other dogs-...
You can NOT shut of the driven instincts of a breed- its in there- just like prego commercials- its in there...
I fault the club that refuses to say this is what you need to do for good ownership of a breed... My club does- but most others do not... I knew when my first borzoi came into the house- that was it for cats- and I need to make sure they do not run in a open field or they willl get too far- too quick to hear me call them back..
Each breed has a " form to function" to consider... and people that really could less about the breed breeding whatever to whatever- is part of the problem- the other half of the problem- THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THAT DO NOT REALIZE THAT THE DOG had a FUNCTION to start with...

[caseysmom]

The few here that are constantly bashing pit bulls. I think we all know what your opinions are, honesty why must you state those opinions over and over and over?

I am sincerely wondering why???

[borzoimom]

gwen- The fact is- each dog was bred for a purpose- a sighthound will chase, a doberman is personal protection and a pit will fight a bull 1/10th its size- then other dogs-...
You can NOT shut of the driven instincts of a breed- its in there- just like prego commercials- its in there...
I fault the club that refuses to say this is what you need to do for good ownership of a breed... My club does- but most others do not... I knew when my first borzoi came into the house- that was it for cats- and I need to make sure they do not run in a open field or they willl get too far- too quick to hear me call them back..
Each breed has a " form to function" to consider... and people that really could less about the breed breeding whatever to whatever- is part of the problem- the other half of the problem- THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THAT DO NOT REALIZE THAT THE DOG had a FUNCTION to start with...

People do not understand why the breed was created- and WE did it... without this knowledge- people do not understand just WHAT they are getting into... Whatever the breed- the breeds were made for a function... Its up to the breed clubs to set a standard of ownership- my breed club does- and others do also- time for the staffy club to do the same...

[Husky15]

What amazes me is that Gwen just asked a simple question that someone with great knowledge on the breed could have answered - instead of everyone getting into yet another debate on staffies and pitties.

No one knows whether this thread was made to create waves or not, but like I said, someone could have just answered her question and saved all this fighting and childishness.

I think that there has been enough threads like this now that everyone should be able to control themself and act maturely.