Staffs are they all vicious???

[DrKym]

Firstly, Sir, it's "M'aam". Secondly, I only stated that they were your conclusions because they were in your post. Not that they were YOUR conclusions since you didn't state from where they came.
And yes, that's the point, "Latch on and not let go" as you put it is exactly the point. But, ah, there enlies the problem, "or they are released", study shows (by the insurance industry) they are unstable in that category. The plain truth of the matter is that Staff, Pit, anything you want to call them are seen as virtually the same category and that will not change in anyone here todays lifetime. And JRT's? well, maybe they won't let go but I'd bet that I would survive THAT attack. So yes, Santa, there is a difference.

I apologize Ma'am, for the gender confusion. I am certain you are aware that I am also female so you may drop the sir.

Again you are being obtuse to the point being made, all three dogs in that example are known to "latch" on.

Your insurance references are obscure at best, as I have owned and trained all 3 breeds mentioned, for years. I actually had more issues insuring my Dobermanns. If you have inside information on that I am all ears.

[Love That Collie]

I apologize Ma'am, for the gender confusion. I am certain you are aware that I am also female so you may drop the sir.

Again you are being obtuse to the point being made, all three dogs in that example are known to "latch" on.

Your insurance references are obscure at best, as I have owned and trained all 3 breeds mentioned, for years. I actually had more issues insuring my Dobermanns. If you have inside information on that I am all ears.

You are the one who stated that JRT's "latch on" and I was stating that, that may well be but there's no comparison to a JRT bite and a "Pit" bite so there's nothing obtuse in my thinking about it. Or do you think a JRT bite is the same?

As far as the insurance references, no, not obscure at all, Pit types top the list in more places (i.e. states, counties and cities) than any other ONE type of breed and that is a fact. Your Doberman's insurances are your problem and where you reside and not seen as a MORE major problem across the U.S. as a whole in attack reported cases. I was a bit surprised that Shar-Pei's were also on the insurance industry list, albeit lower on the list. If anybody doesn't think that the insurance industry ISN'T behind breed banning legislation and that they aren't one of the most powerful industries in the nation then those people are sorely mistaken. And if the breeder of these types don't change their breeding habits, owners of "Pit" types might just wake up one day to find them illegal, period, everywhere in the U.S. as they already are in some counties.

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

[DrKym]

You are the one who stated that JRT's "latch on" and I was stating that, that may well be but there's no comparison to a JRT bite and a "Pit" bite so there's nothing obtuse in my thinking about it. Or do you think a JRT bite is the same?

As far as the insurance references, no, not obscure at all, Pit types top the list in more places (i.e. states, counties and cities) than any other ONE type of breed and that is a fact. Your Doberman's insurances are your problem and where you reside and not seen as a MORE major problem across the U.S. as a whole in attack reported cases. I was a bit surprised that Shar-Pei's were also on the insurance industry list, albeit lower on the list. If anybody doesn't think that the insurance industry ISN'T behind breed banning legislation and that they aren't one of the most powerful industries in the nation then those people are sorely mistaken. And if the breeder of these types don't change their breeding habits, owners of "Pit" types might just wake up one day to find them illegal, period, everywhere in the U.S. as they already are in some counties.

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

We are all aware of the might of Insurance lobbyists, and with misinformed and prejudicial people writing the policies, whose pockets are fleeced by those willing to fleece them, many breeds suffer.

According to the Google search I just did, Akitas, Shar peis, Rottweilers, GSDs, also top the list for insurance issues. None of those are Pit type, nor Staffodshire descent.......

As stated earlier the obvious size difference between a JRT and a larger terrier is obvious. Therefore the bite differential would also change.

Returning to original portion of this thread, it was NOT the breed at fault on the whole, it was the owners inabilty to restrain, control or correct his animal. It was abuse to have beaten the dog into submission at the whim of a passerby. It still stands that not all dogs in a breed are awful or wonderful, and all breed charicteristics must be taken into account when aquiring your companion. Not all dogs will go find Timmy, and not all are expected to.

[Love That Collie]

We are all aware of the might of Insurance lobbyists, and with misinformed and prejudicial people writing the policies, whose pockets are fleeced by those willing to fleece them, many breeds suffer.

According to the Google search I just did, Akitas, Shar peis, Rottweilers, GSDs, also top the list for insurance issues. None of those are Pit type, nor Staffodshire descent.......

Yes, they do, (re the Akita, Shar, Rott) but not the major cities and major insurance co.'s and the list changes also. And there's no lobbyists getting paid for lobbying against Shar-Pei's or Akita's, solely. However, it would be nice if they would go find "Timmy".

[DrKym]

Yes, they do, (re the Akita, Shar, Rott) but not the major cities and major insurance co.'s and the list changes also. And there's no lobbyists getting paid for lobbying against Shar-Pei's or Akita's, solely. However, it would be nice if they would go find "Timmy".

I assume you meant the lobbyists

[Love That Collie]

I assume you meant the lobbyists

No, I meant "Pits" are right up there. The lower level insurance companies will insure them because they know that the majority of the high profile ones more often than not, will not. But, I'd watch out for that fine print with those lower level insurance companies policies.

[DrKym]

More Pitts than I care to mention hold an award for "finding Timmy" in this example, being there for their family. Without the benefit of Hollywood. You can find several confirmed references on this site alone.

My daughter owns Staffodshire terriers, and her homeowners is through Allstate. So is her car insurance. Her rental Insurance was through State Farm. She lives in Yavapai county Az. Go figure.

As I said not all dogs need to bark down a well, nor are they expected to. Several insurance policy writers would be better employed barking down that well, present company excluded.

[SunsetRose]

They aren't vicious dogs.

But they aren't the right dog for everybody. Do they have a high prey drive? yes. Can they be dog aggressive? Yes. They make wonderful dogs IF they get the proper training and socialization. But by no means are they vicious dogs that should be banned or put to sleep.

I too am suprised at how many people say they would beat their dog if it attacked another animal. Believe it or not, reacting to violence with violence can actually make it worse. The dog will take it's pain out on the animal it has in it's mouth becuase it thinks it's that animal causing the pain.

The best way to deal with a situation like this besides using pepper or citronella spray is simply to get ahold of the dog, force it to lay down and pry the animal out of it's mouth. I know this because we once had a German shepherd a long time ago when I was younger who would attack cats. Hitting him never worked, just made it worse, what did was grabbing him by the scruff of the neck, putting his body between your legs, restrain movement, push him to the ground and then remove the cat.

[Kfamr]

There is a HUGE difference between PREY DRIVE (going after a swan) and aggression/being vicious (going after something for no reason.)

And that is all I will comment on because this thread had gotten incredibly childish.