Staffs are they all vicious???

[Miss Z]

Gwen, I see that you are also a member of the UK here. I suppose you heard on the news a while back about the pit bull that mauled and killed a little girl near Wigan? Now, I won't delve into that crisis, but I'm sure you heard about it. Since then, pitties and 'pit-bull type dogs' have been sufferring great 'discrimination', if you will.

I don't know how much you know about the situation in much of the USA, but in many states these dogs are banned because of unfair prejudice. True, they were designed as fighting dogs and are shaped for it, but they also have a brain which can be moulded by firm and caring hands. Think of it this way, a baby up for adoption could be placed in one of two homes. One home is a small cottage in the countryside with a middle-class family who have always wanted children and have their best interests at heart. The other are a young couple with a criminal record, living in a dodgy part of town and have an unstable relationship. Either of those homes can shape the SAME child's mind, purely on the way they bring it up. The same goes for dogs.

This prejudice against pit bull type dogs is spreading fast and soon it won't be long before pits are put down on the streets here. I don't know if you watched much news coverage of the incident I mentioned above, but I saw one report on ITV of police removing pit bull dogs from a home, claiming them to be vicious and a public risk. Now, on that report, I saw not one 'dangerous' dog. I saw men dragging out dogs on their knees. I saw men hoisting dogs into carriers and them peering out as if to say 'what did I do?'. No, I did not see vicious dogs, I saw SCARED dogs.

In this situation, as others have said, the beating and the tying up reflect the attitude of this owner. If he is not capable of training a strong dog to heel when commanded he should get a goldfish.

You seem a nice person, and I would just like to warn you that you will meet much resistance to any stereo-typing of pit-bull type dogs. We have many pit bull lovers here and it breaks their hearts everytime they see a thread like this. Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, yes I have seen all the coverage about that, I know that any breed of dog can 'turn' I remember when there was a big deal made about rotweilers(spelling?) My point was that almost without exception all the staffs and english bull terriers I have came across seem to be very aggressive. I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

[gwen]

Dr Goodnow, I dont know so I am just askin the question, is not allowed to hear all opinions, while you may have valid views they are not the only views, if anything I am in agreement with many of your points, just not totally convinced which is my perogative.

[Miss Z]

I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

Yes, I believe so. Most of the bull terrier and pit-bull type dogs I've come across are owned by families in unstable relationships and on all sorts of income-related bonuses, due to a marriage breakdown here and a job loss there. Now I'm not one to be stereotypical but that is true to what I have generally seen.

It's also now widely accepted that the pit bull is the official 'chav' dog, and illegal dog fighting for profit for drugs is practiced far more often than first anticipated, or so I've been told.

I'm sure that this perception isn't just confined to the UK but across most of the developed world, and I expect the prejudice has sprung as much from the people that own them as the dogs themselves!

[cyber-sibes]

Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

I hope no one takes this wrong, but of course they are born to kill, as is every meat-eating animal on the planet! That's why they have long sharp teeth.

I read a a great article on prey-drive on a husky site. The author described how different breeds were adapted by man to stop their instinctive natural hunting cycle at different points-- example: a pointer will indicate the prey, but not attack it. A retriever will carry prey back, but not bite it & eat it. Other breeds will drive prey into a corner and hold it there. In the case of huskies & other high-prey drive northern breeds, the hunting cycle was never interferred with, so these dogs will hunt, kill, and devore their prey. And they do. I wouldn't label them "viciouss", they are being good hunters. I know if I said "drop it", they'll look at me like "Are you nuts?"

Look at this from the dog's perspective - it saw an easy opportunity to hunt & bring down a large tasty bird, and it's prey drive kicked in. You label it "viciousness", because you see the swan as "innocent". Another dog might think "nicely done!"

I don't know much about pitties, except that they are loving devoted guardians. Who knows? Maybe it saw the bird as invading its territory?

To answer your original question - yes, some breeds have a higher prey drive than others. Individual dogs vary in their aggressiveness & submissivness. It is unfortunate that some breeds suffer because of their natural tendencies. ALL dogs need obedience training & a responsible owner.

[Miss Z]

I hope no one takes this wrong, but of course they are born to kill, as is every meat-eating animal on the planet! That's why they have long sharp teeth.

Whoops, I guess I forgot to re-read the meaning of my post! What I meant to say was that no matter what the reputation is, any dog's mind is not consantly occupied by the drive of catching and killing. I suppose that's what you get for trying to write posts at nearly midnight after a long school day.

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I read through both of yours and Kym's posts and really, it's a little childish bringing such matters down to bantering between our genders.

As for the whole situation of pit bulls and the likewise breeds here in the UK, as far as I'm aware it's illegal to breed and sell pit bulls and staffies etc, but not illegal to buy or own one. I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not so someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

I do, however, believe this thread has gone way off topic and it's a real shame to see fracturelines appearing once again in PT's general friendly nature. I think perhaps it would be a good idea if we go and cool down, hug a pet, then come back and think about how nasty posts may affect our fellow Pet Talkers.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, I really didnt realise what a can of worms I was opening. It seems a really touchy subject. Som people seem really hardcore in their opinions but some have been kind and rational, especially you, thanks again.

[borzoimom]

gwen- The fact is- each dog was bred for a purpose- a sighthound will chase, a doberman is personal protection and a pit will fight a bull 1/10th its size- then other dogs-...
You can NOT shut of the driven instincts of a breed- its in there- just like prego commercials- its in there...
I fault the club that refuses to say this is what you need to do for good ownership of a breed... My club does- but most others do not... I knew when my first borzoi came into the house- that was it for cats- and I need to make sure they do not run in a open field or they willl get too far- too quick to hear me call them back..
Each breed has a " form to function" to consider... and people that really could less about the breed breeding whatever to whatever- is part of the problem- the other half of the problem- THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THAT DO NOT REALIZE THAT THE DOG had a FUNCTION to start with...

[caseysmom]

The few here that are constantly bashing pit bulls. I think we all know what your opinions are, honesty why must you state those opinions over and over and over?

I am sincerely wondering why???

[borzoimom]

gwen- The fact is- each dog was bred for a purpose- a sighthound will chase, a doberman is personal protection and a pit will fight a bull 1/10th its size- then other dogs-...
You can NOT shut of the driven instincts of a breed- its in there- just like prego commercials- its in there...
I fault the club that refuses to say this is what you need to do for good ownership of a breed... My club does- but most others do not... I knew when my first borzoi came into the house- that was it for cats- and I need to make sure they do not run in a open field or they willl get too far- too quick to hear me call them back..
Each breed has a " form to function" to consider... and people that really could less about the breed breeding whatever to whatever- is part of the problem- the other half of the problem- THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THAT DO NOT REALIZE THAT THE DOG had a FUNCTION to start with...

People do not understand why the breed was created- and WE did it... without this knowledge- people do not understand just WHAT they are getting into... Whatever the breed- the breeds were made for a function... Its up to the breed clubs to set a standard of ownership- my breed club does- and others do also- time for the staffy club to do the same...

[caseysmom]

Us humans all had things in our past...that is not what we are today, we no longer hunt or forage for the most part, you just can't evaluate us based on ancient history. Same with dogs.

The pitties at the shelter I volunteer at are hands down the best behaved dogs in the place.

[Husky15]

What amazes me is that Gwen just asked a simple question that someone with great knowledge on the breed could have answered - instead of everyone getting into yet another debate on staffies and pitties.

No one knows whether this thread was made to create waves or not, but like I said, someone could have just answered her question and saved all this fighting and childishness.

I think that there has been enough threads like this now that everyone should be able to control themself and act maturely.

[Love That Collie]

Quote Miss Z:from Originally Posted by Love That Collie

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I read through both of yours and Kym's posts and really, it's a little childish bringing such matters down to bantering between our genders:End Quote......................................


Maybe you better go back and re-read again.