Staffs are they all vicious???

[wolfsoul]

there is special pepper spray for dogs for that reason. better than beating the living hell out of the dog IMO. I would never beat my dogs over that, I would use the pepper spray that they make for dogs. I cannot believe a few of you would beat your dog if the dog attacked an animal.

You carry pepper spray? How many people out there carry pepper spray in the case that their dog attack someone or something? As was said, the owner didn't know his dog would attack anything. Even if your dog is the nicest dog in the world, it is still an animal with feelings, emotion, and reactions -- it still has the ability, potential, and physical traits that allow it to kill something. Does that mean we should all carry pepper spray? We didn't have pepper spray when my neighbor's dog killed my cat. What was our other option? If a dog was attacking your child, and you didn't have pepper spray, what would you do? Not only that --but pepper spray has been known to cause sudden death. I would hate to be responsible for both the death or serious injuries to both the dog in question as well as the attackee.

I completely agree that the dog should not have been offleash. However, I find it much easier said than done to teach a dog to stop killing whatever is in it's mouth. The problem with "calling a dog off" is that when you have a particularily drivey dog, in drive, it may or may not listen. Ask Glacier how easy it is to call a Siberian husky off small prey. 99% impossible. It is one thing to teach a normal dog to drop a ball or a stick. It is a completely different thing to command a dog to drop whatever it is killing when it is in drive mode. I have drivey dogs, I've trained drivey dogs -- I have been bitten to the point of blood and bruises from otherwise completely friendly animals, all because they were in drive and I was preventing them from doing what they wanted to do.

[luvofallhorses]

I am confused. nobody said the dog's life was more valuable than the swan ..
they both are valuable but swans have never been pets and will never be pets. We never did compare the swan to a child either. it'd be different if it were a child, I am sure. but I have never been in the situation where my dogs have bit a child, fortunately and I hope that doesn't happen.
By you asking if ALL staffs are vicious, NO they are not. some can be just like ANY dog but that seriously depends how they are treated and raised.

and no, wolfsoul I don't carry pepper spray.. I was just saying it's more humane. I carry a stick when I walk my dogs to protect both of us. I knew this thread was going to be a huge debate yet again and I am sick of it.

[gwen]

I'm not knocking staffies as such as with humans you get good and bad, I was just asking thee question if its more likely in these type of breeds thats all.

[Kalei]

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

I think what GreyhoundGirl means is that you might not know that the owner keeps the dog tied up outside all the time of its life. And a chained dog is never going to be completely nice and tame.

[luvofallhorses]

some staffs are animal aggressive, but that just depends on the dog and they aren't supposed to be human aggressive at all. you aren't supposed to show them any aggression whatsoever.

[wolfsoul]

So why couldnt that be true of these terrier type dogs if it is there nature then surely it is irresponsible to own such dogs.

Terriers are not the problem -- it's people owning them that do not understand the breeds. Terriers encompass hundreds of different breeds. Many many breeds have high prey drives -- basically all of the Northern breeds (huskies, malamutes, etc), dogs bred specifically for schutzhund (usually line-based -- Belgian shepherds, dutch shepherds, etc), hunting and catching breeds (catahoulas, curs, etc). If you wanted to ban every breed known for it's drive, you'd eradicate most of the dog population.

[luvofallhorses]

I agree with wolfsoul. It just depends on the dog, NOT the breed itsself.

[wolfsoul]

I was just saying it's more humane.

I completely understand, it does sound more safe -- however my friend's aunt went blind after having pepper spray in her eyes. It isn't at all what it's cracked up to be, and it's coming close to being banned since it's caused so many deaths.

[luvofallhorses]

I completely understand, it does sound more safe -- however my friend's aunt went blind after having pepper spray in her eyes. It isn't at all what it's cracked up to be, and it's coming close to being banned since it's caused so many deaths.

I haven't ever had to use it and hope I don't have to. but I know of an animal control officer that carries it just incase he gets attacked by a dog or cat.

[gwen]

As I said in the begining I have only had my dog for a couple of months so the world of dogs is all new to me, all I can comment on is what I have seen it was a very scary thing to witness first hand and my children were with me and my 7 yr old daughter especially was very shaken by the incident.

[Miss Z]

Gwen, I see that you are also a member of the UK here. I suppose you heard on the news a while back about the pit bull that mauled and killed a little girl near Wigan? Now, I won't delve into that crisis, but I'm sure you heard about it. Since then, pitties and 'pit-bull type dogs' have been sufferring great 'discrimination', if you will.

I don't know how much you know about the situation in much of the USA, but in many states these dogs are banned because of unfair prejudice. True, they were designed as fighting dogs and are shaped for it, but they also have a brain which can be moulded by firm and caring hands. Think of it this way, a baby up for adoption could be placed in one of two homes. One home is a small cottage in the countryside with a middle-class family who have always wanted children and have their best interests at heart. The other are a young couple with a criminal record, living in a dodgy part of town and have an unstable relationship. Either of those homes can shape the SAME child's mind, purely on the way they bring it up. The same goes for dogs.

This prejudice against pit bull type dogs is spreading fast and soon it won't be long before pits are put down on the streets here. I don't know if you watched much news coverage of the incident I mentioned above, but I saw one report on ITV of police removing pit bull dogs from a home, claiming them to be vicious and a public risk. Now, on that report, I saw not one 'dangerous' dog. I saw men dragging out dogs on their knees. I saw men hoisting dogs into carriers and them peering out as if to say 'what did I do?'. No, I did not see vicious dogs, I saw SCARED dogs.

In this situation, as others have said, the beating and the tying up reflect the attitude of this owner. If he is not capable of training a strong dog to heel when commanded he should get a goldfish.

You seem a nice person, and I would just like to warn you that you will meet much resistance to any stereo-typing of pit-bull type dogs. We have many pit bull lovers here and it breaks their hearts everytime they see a thread like this. Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

[critter crazy]

Maybe its me but I dont understand why the dogs life is of more value than the swan. Isnt it possible that with all the best intentions and good training some creatures arent meant to be pets. I understand that if I had a lion as a pet and at some point it attacked someone, it could be said it is just its nature. So why couldnt that be true of these terrier type dogs if it is there nature then surely it is irresponsible to own such dogs. It was a swan this time but what if it was a child.

no one was saying that the swans life was less valuable than the dogs, I own chickens and ducks,a nd it pains me to hear that a swan got attacked by a dog. All we are trying to say is that the owner obviously was neglectful by allowing the dog off leash. He should have had better control. and not all staffies are like that! you cannot assume the nature of a whole breed, based on the behavior of one. and we dont even know why the dog attacked. we dont even know if the dog had ever attacked before. If the dog had attacked any type of animal before than the owner was defionitely at fault here.

[DrKym]

Ask Glacier how easy it is to call a Siberian husky off small prey. 99% impossible.


I am pretty certain that Glacier has researched her breed, to the point of being an expert, therefore wouldn't have had her dog off lead in a park to begin with.................I would also think that any other Husky owner would agree that small prey drive is high in the breed. Different between individuals, but a trait to consider nonetheless.

Can we say the same of the nice bloke? Or for that matter Gwen who has had her question answered several ways several times in this thread alone.

What she wants to hear is that this breed is awful.What she wants to hear is that it could have been a child. What she wants to hear is that it is the NATURE of the animal.

My own dogs are a breed that can have a high prey drive. Therefore I am constantly working with them to drop anything on command. Including their dinner.

Again I urge this person to read her own thread, and understand that her answers have been given.

As for the lion comment, if they were also a domesticated specie, then your parralel holds water, as they are not, it doesn't

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, yes I have seen all the coverage about that, I know that any breed of dog can 'turn' I remember when there was a big deal made about rotweilers(spelling?) My point was that almost without exception all the staffs and english bull terriers I have came across seem to be very aggressive. I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

[gwen]

Dr Goodnow, I dont know so I am just askin the question, is not allowed to hear all opinions, while you may have valid views they are not the only views, if anything I am in agreement with many of your points, just not totally convinced which is my perogative.