Staffs are they all vicious???

[GreyhoundGirl]

tied him to a post.

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

[gwen]

Gosh!!! The man tied the dog to the post so he could tend to the swan that had been savaged by the dog. And I imagine so the dog couldnt attack any one else.

[Kalei]

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

I think what GreyhoundGirl means is that you might not know that the owner keeps the dog tied up outside all the time of its life. And a chained dog is never going to be completely nice and tame.

[DrKym]

Ask Glacier how easy it is to call a Siberian husky off small prey. 99% impossible.


I am pretty certain that Glacier has researched her breed, to the point of being an expert, therefore wouldn't have had her dog off lead in a park to begin with.................I would also think that any other Husky owner would agree that small prey drive is high in the breed. Different between individuals, but a trait to consider nonetheless.

Can we say the same of the nice bloke? Or for that matter Gwen who has had her question answered several ways several times in this thread alone.

What she wants to hear is that this breed is awful.What she wants to hear is that it could have been a child. What she wants to hear is that it is the NATURE of the animal.

My own dogs are a breed that can have a high prey drive. Therefore I am constantly working with them to drop anything on command. Including their dinner.

Again I urge this person to read her own thread, and understand that her answers have been given.

As for the lion comment, if they were also a domesticated specie, then your parralel holds water, as they are not, it doesn't

[wolfsoul]

I am pretty certain that Glacier has researched her breed, to the point of being an expert, therefore wouldn't have had her dog off lead in a park to begin with.................I would also think that any other Husky owner would agree that small prey drive is high in the breed. Different between individuals, but a trait to consider nonetheless.

No, but that doesn't stop a stray cat from running into her yard. What would she do then? My point was, whether or not the dog is offleash or in it's own backyard, it is silly to say you wouldn't physically try to remove your dog in any way possible if it was killing something.

[DrKym]

No, but that doesn't stop a stray cat from running into her yard. What would she do then? My point was, whether or not the dog is offleash or in it's own backyard, it is silly to say you wouldn't physically try to remove your dog in any way possible if it was killing something.

Apples and Oranges, this animal was not in it's territory, it was off lead in a public area.

[wolf_Q]

Prey drive and human aggression are NOT the same thing. Just because a dog would attack a swan does not in any way mean the dog would attack a human.

I have siberian huskies. They would love to eat any small critter/bird/etc. they could get to, but I do not let them off leash and give them the chance. They are also often around small children and are perfectly fine with them.

The dog definitely should not have been off leash. No, all staffies are not vicious, most of the attacks you hear about involve dogs trained for fighting, or simply left intact and neglected, they need proper socialization and training. I do believe they have a higher tendency (as well as several other breeds) to be dog aggressive and they require an experienced owner.

[DrKym]

Prey drive and human aggression are NOT the same thing. Just because a dog would attack a swan does not in any way mean the dog would attack a human.

I have siberian huskies. They would love to eat any small critter/bird/etc. they could get to, but I do not let them off leash and give them the chance. They are also often around small children and are perfectly fine with them.

The dog definitely should not have been off leash. No, all staffies are not vicious, most of the attacks you hear about involve dogs trained for fighting, or simply left intact and neglected, they need proper socialization and training. I do believe they have a higher tendency (as well as several other breeds) to be dog aggressive and they require an experienced owner.

Well said and exactly the same point I keep going back to on this thread.

[wolfsoul]

Prey drive and human aggression are NOT the same thing. Just because a dog would attack a swan does not in any way mean the dog would attack a human.

I completely agree, but there is definatly a fine line between the two. Prey drive is often stimulated by a moving/running creature. When a chase is instilled, prey drive can have the same affect in a completely different manner than human aggression with the same result. Candy was a wonderful dog, and she had alot of prey drive. It was a good thing for us because we use toys as reinforcement, and she had a strong drive to chase them (moving/running item). However, the reason she came to me and did not stay with Marla, is that running children would also set her off, and she would chase the children and grab on to them when they ran. It could have been trained away, but it does show the correlation between prey drive and actually hurting a human.The dog does not understand that it is a human. It sees something, chases it, and sometimes grabs on. It is not the dog's fault, the dog should have been trained, but it shows a strong connection between the two.

Prey drive is the #1 thing that trainers look for in a protection dog. A schutzhund dog without prey drive is not a schutzhund dog at all. And yes, these dogs are trained to attack humans. Just because it is called prey drive, and not human drive, does not mean it is restricted to only one thing. Many schutzhund dogs are wonderful with the family cats.

[wolfsoul]

Apples and Oranges, this animal was not in it's territory, it was off lead in a public area.

I agree -- it was put into a setting where bad things were more likely to happen, and I do not condone letting an animal offleash in a high-traffic area or an area where it may be a danger to animals -- but I still believe that the owner physically trying to remove the dog's grasp on the was still justified, as there are few other options short of tranquilizing or shooting the dog right there to make it let go of the animal. Since the dog was playing fetch we can only assume it had already been taught a release command -- however a dog in prey drive mode may be tuned off to outside distractions. I'm not at all saying the owner was a good owner and should be awarded Staffordshire bull terrier owner of the year award -- maybe my opinions are irrelevant in this case -- What I am saying is that if my dog was attacking something, I would pick up it's back legs, and if that didn't work, I'd be beating it with whatever object I could find. And this could happen in my own back yard, as it did with my cat and the neighbor's dog. Different, more innocent setting, but the same consequences, and I would hate to be looked badly upon for attacking my dog rather than standing there yelling. Basically what everyone is saying is that my mom was a horrible person for beating my neighbor's dog with a 2X4 while it had my cat in it's mouth, shaking her and killing her.

[DrKym]

I agree -- it was put into a setting where bad things were more likely to happen, and I do not condone letting an animal offleash in a high-traffic area or an area where it may be a danger to animals -- but I still believe that the owner physically trying to remove the dog's grasp on the was still justified, as there are few other options short of tranquilizing or shooting the dog right there to make it let go of the animal. Since the dog was playing fetch we can only assume it had already been taught a release command -- however a dog in prey drive mode may be tuned off to outside distractions. I'm not at all saying the owner was a good owner and should be awarded Staffordshire bull terrier owner of the year award -- maybe my opinions are irrelevant in this case -- What I am saying is that if my dog was attacking something, I would pick up it's back legs, and if that didn't work, I'd be beating it with whatever object I could find. And this could happen in my own back yard, as it did with my cat and the neighbor's dog. Different, more innocent setting, but the same consequences, and I would hate to be looked badly upon for attacking my dog rather than standing there yelling. Basically what everyone is saying is that my mom was a horrible person for beating my neighbor's dog with a 2X4 while it had my cat in it's mouth, shaking her and killing her.

Jordan,

Let me clarify my point, I understand that your cat was attacked, I understand that your neighbors dog did this. I understand your mothers desire to protect her childs pet. I do not agree with beating the animal.
In the scenario that Gwen brought up, it was NOT the owner that was beating the animal, as a matter of fact, the owner stood by, while a passerby" beat the dog into submission".

In that instance, if the animal had been taught commands to drop, or to release and was not heeding them as you stated is a possibility, would it not stand to reason that you would place its' lead back on? To gain physical control in order to gain mental control?

Would it not have been incumbent upon this man to call for assistance for the animal mauled?

Other facts of poor ownership aside. The fact remains that again, a breed will suffer for the ignorance and arrogance of his master.

As for your cat, I am truly sorry for your loss. I am sorrier that the whole situation happened, especially for the dog that was beaten with 2x4. That is abuse. I understand the extenuating circumstances. As for Glacier and her cat issue, it was horrifying for her also. Does that mean her breed or your neighbors breed are all born awful? No. Does it mean that instead of a spray people should instead carry bludgeoning tools? Or that we are all at the mercy of passerby willing to beat our dogs, that we failed to train properly?
I think not.

[Miss Z]

Gwen, I see that you are also a member of the UK here. I suppose you heard on the news a while back about the pit bull that mauled and killed a little girl near Wigan? Now, I won't delve into that crisis, but I'm sure you heard about it. Since then, pitties and 'pit-bull type dogs' have been sufferring great 'discrimination', if you will.

I don't know how much you know about the situation in much of the USA, but in many states these dogs are banned because of unfair prejudice. True, they were designed as fighting dogs and are shaped for it, but they also have a brain which can be moulded by firm and caring hands. Think of it this way, a baby up for adoption could be placed in one of two homes. One home is a small cottage in the countryside with a middle-class family who have always wanted children and have their best interests at heart. The other are a young couple with a criminal record, living in a dodgy part of town and have an unstable relationship. Either of those homes can shape the SAME child's mind, purely on the way they bring it up. The same goes for dogs.

This prejudice against pit bull type dogs is spreading fast and soon it won't be long before pits are put down on the streets here. I don't know if you watched much news coverage of the incident I mentioned above, but I saw one report on ITV of police removing pit bull dogs from a home, claiming them to be vicious and a public risk. Now, on that report, I saw not one 'dangerous' dog. I saw men dragging out dogs on their knees. I saw men hoisting dogs into carriers and them peering out as if to say 'what did I do?'. No, I did not see vicious dogs, I saw SCARED dogs.

In this situation, as others have said, the beating and the tying up reflect the attitude of this owner. If he is not capable of training a strong dog to heel when commanded he should get a goldfish.

You seem a nice person, and I would just like to warn you that you will meet much resistance to any stereo-typing of pit-bull type dogs. We have many pit bull lovers here and it breaks their hearts everytime they see a thread like this. Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, yes I have seen all the coverage about that, I know that any breed of dog can 'turn' I remember when there was a big deal made about rotweilers(spelling?) My point was that almost without exception all the staffs and english bull terriers I have came across seem to be very aggressive. I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

[gwen]

Dr Goodnow, I dont know so I am just askin the question, is not allowed to hear all opinions, while you may have valid views they are not the only views, if anything I am in agreement with many of your points, just not totally convinced which is my perogative.

[Miss Z]

I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

Yes, I believe so. Most of the bull terrier and pit-bull type dogs I've come across are owned by families in unstable relationships and on all sorts of income-related bonuses, due to a marriage breakdown here and a job loss there. Now I'm not one to be stereotypical but that is true to what I have generally seen.

It's also now widely accepted that the pit bull is the official 'chav' dog, and illegal dog fighting for profit for drugs is practiced far more often than first anticipated, or so I've been told.

I'm sure that this perception isn't just confined to the UK but across most of the developed world, and I expect the prejudice has sprung as much from the people that own them as the dogs themselves!