Staffs are they all vicious???

[gwen]

Maybe its me but I dont understand why the dogs life is of more value than the swan. Isnt it possible that with all the best intentions and good training some creatures arent meant to be pets. I understand that if I had a lion as a pet and at some point it attacked someone, it could be said it is just its nature. So why couldnt that be true of these terrier type dogs if it is there nature then surely it is irresponsible to own such dogs. It was a swan this time but what if it was a child.

[gwen]

The dog was fine by the way after he spat out the swans feathers the owner put him on his lead and tied him to a post.

[GreyhoundGirl]

tied him to a post.

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

[gwen]

Gosh!!! The man tied the dog to the post so he could tend to the swan that had been savaged by the dog. And I imagine so the dog couldnt attack any one else.

[Kalei]

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

I think what GreyhoundGirl means is that you might not know that the owner keeps the dog tied up outside all the time of its life. And a chained dog is never going to be completely nice and tame.

[DrKym]

Ask Glacier how easy it is to call a Siberian husky off small prey. 99% impossible.


I am pretty certain that Glacier has researched her breed, to the point of being an expert, therefore wouldn't have had her dog off lead in a park to begin with.................I would also think that any other Husky owner would agree that small prey drive is high in the breed. Different between individuals, but a trait to consider nonetheless.

Can we say the same of the nice bloke? Or for that matter Gwen who has had her question answered several ways several times in this thread alone.

What she wants to hear is that this breed is awful.What she wants to hear is that it could have been a child. What she wants to hear is that it is the NATURE of the animal.

My own dogs are a breed that can have a high prey drive. Therefore I am constantly working with them to drop anything on command. Including their dinner.

Again I urge this person to read her own thread, and understand that her answers have been given.

As for the lion comment, if they were also a domesticated specie, then your parralel holds water, as they are not, it doesn't

[wolfsoul]

I am pretty certain that Glacier has researched her breed, to the point of being an expert, therefore wouldn't have had her dog off lead in a park to begin with.................I would also think that any other Husky owner would agree that small prey drive is high in the breed. Different between individuals, but a trait to consider nonetheless.

No, but that doesn't stop a stray cat from running into her yard. What would she do then? My point was, whether or not the dog is offleash or in it's own backyard, it is silly to say you wouldn't physically try to remove your dog in any way possible if it was killing something.

[DrKym]

No, but that doesn't stop a stray cat from running into her yard. What would she do then? My point was, whether or not the dog is offleash or in it's own backyard, it is silly to say you wouldn't physically try to remove your dog in any way possible if it was killing something.

Apples and Oranges, this animal was not in it's territory, it was off lead in a public area.

[Miss Z]

Gwen, I see that you are also a member of the UK here. I suppose you heard on the news a while back about the pit bull that mauled and killed a little girl near Wigan? Now, I won't delve into that crisis, but I'm sure you heard about it. Since then, pitties and 'pit-bull type dogs' have been sufferring great 'discrimination', if you will.

I don't know how much you know about the situation in much of the USA, but in many states these dogs are banned because of unfair prejudice. True, they were designed as fighting dogs and are shaped for it, but they also have a brain which can be moulded by firm and caring hands. Think of it this way, a baby up for adoption could be placed in one of two homes. One home is a small cottage in the countryside with a middle-class family who have always wanted children and have their best interests at heart. The other are a young couple with a criminal record, living in a dodgy part of town and have an unstable relationship. Either of those homes can shape the SAME child's mind, purely on the way they bring it up. The same goes for dogs.

This prejudice against pit bull type dogs is spreading fast and soon it won't be long before pits are put down on the streets here. I don't know if you watched much news coverage of the incident I mentioned above, but I saw one report on ITV of police removing pit bull dogs from a home, claiming them to be vicious and a public risk. Now, on that report, I saw not one 'dangerous' dog. I saw men dragging out dogs on their knees. I saw men hoisting dogs into carriers and them peering out as if to say 'what did I do?'. No, I did not see vicious dogs, I saw SCARED dogs.

In this situation, as others have said, the beating and the tying up reflect the attitude of this owner. If he is not capable of training a strong dog to heel when commanded he should get a goldfish.

You seem a nice person, and I would just like to warn you that you will meet much resistance to any stereo-typing of pit-bull type dogs. We have many pit bull lovers here and it breaks their hearts everytime they see a thread like this. Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, yes I have seen all the coverage about that, I know that any breed of dog can 'turn' I remember when there was a big deal made about rotweilers(spelling?) My point was that almost without exception all the staffs and english bull terriers I have came across seem to be very aggressive. I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

[gwen]

Dr Goodnow, I dont know so I am just askin the question, is not allowed to hear all opinions, while you may have valid views they are not the only views, if anything I am in agreement with many of your points, just not totally convinced which is my perogative.

[Miss Z]

I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.

Yes, I believe so. Most of the bull terrier and pit-bull type dogs I've come across are owned by families in unstable relationships and on all sorts of income-related bonuses, due to a marriage breakdown here and a job loss there. Now I'm not one to be stereotypical but that is true to what I have generally seen.

It's also now widely accepted that the pit bull is the official 'chav' dog, and illegal dog fighting for profit for drugs is practiced far more often than first anticipated, or so I've been told.

I'm sure that this perception isn't just confined to the UK but across most of the developed world, and I expect the prejudice has sprung as much from the people that own them as the dogs themselves!

[cyber-sibes]

Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

I hope no one takes this wrong, but of course they are born to kill, as is every meat-eating animal on the planet! That's why they have long sharp teeth.

I read a a great article on prey-drive on a husky site. The author described how different breeds were adapted by man to stop their instinctive natural hunting cycle at different points-- example: a pointer will indicate the prey, but not attack it. A retriever will carry prey back, but not bite it & eat it. Other breeds will drive prey into a corner and hold it there. In the case of huskies & other high-prey drive northern breeds, the hunting cycle was never interferred with, so these dogs will hunt, kill, and devore their prey. And they do. I wouldn't label them "viciouss", they are being good hunters. I know if I said "drop it", they'll look at me like "Are you nuts?"

Look at this from the dog's perspective - it saw an easy opportunity to hunt & bring down a large tasty bird, and it's prey drive kicked in. You label it "viciousness", because you see the swan as "innocent". Another dog might think "nicely done!"

I don't know much about pitties, except that they are loving devoted guardians. Who knows? Maybe it saw the bird as invading its territory?

To answer your original question - yes, some breeds have a higher prey drive than others. Individual dogs vary in their aggressiveness & submissivness. It is unfortunate that some breeds suffer because of their natural tendencies. ALL dogs need obedience training & a responsible owner.

[Miss Z]

I hope no one takes this wrong, but of course they are born to kill, as is every meat-eating animal on the planet! That's why they have long sharp teeth.

Whoops, I guess I forgot to re-read the meaning of my post! What I meant to say was that no matter what the reputation is, any dog's mind is not consantly occupied by the drive of catching and killing. I suppose that's what you get for trying to write posts at nearly midnight after a long school day.

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I read through both of yours and Kym's posts and really, it's a little childish bringing such matters down to bantering between our genders.

As for the whole situation of pit bulls and the likewise breeds here in the UK, as far as I'm aware it's illegal to breed and sell pit bulls and staffies etc, but not illegal to buy or own one. I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not so someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

I do, however, believe this thread has gone way off topic and it's a real shame to see fracturelines appearing once again in PT's general friendly nature. I think perhaps it would be a good idea if we go and cool down, hug a pet, then come back and think about how nasty posts may affect our fellow Pet Talkers.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, I really didnt realise what a can of worms I was opening. It seems a really touchy subject. Som people seem really hardcore in their opinions but some have been kind and rational, especially you, thanks again.