Staffs are they all vicious???

[gwen]

I am really suprised at some responses, my point was that this dog was so savagely attacking this poor innocent swan who was doing nothing more than sitting by the bank of the river, it was so full of blood lust that the only way to save the swan was to beat it, what would you have done in that situation? The owner was distraught that his dog could do such a thing, he seemed like a nice bloke only seconds before he and the dog were playing fetch, and this is my question are these dogs so intrinsically vicious that no matter what, there true instinct will always come out? (The police were called as in England swans are the Queens property so I am sure that it was given medical attention.)

[critter crazy]

I am really suprised at some responses, my point was that this dog was so savagely attacking this poor innocent swan who was doing nothing more than sitting by the bank of the river, it was so full of blood lust that the only way to save the swan was to beat it, what would you have done in that situation? The owner was distraught that his dog could do such a thing, he seemed like a nice bloke only seconds before he and the dog were playing fetch, and this is my question are these dogs so intrinsically vicious that no matter what, there true instinct will always come out? (The police were called as in England swans are the Queens property so I am sure that it was given medical attention.)

The point is, the guy obviously did not have proper control of his dog! Any dog can have a prey drive, that this dog obviously has. If it had been a dalmation, would you come to the same conclusion, that this dog was intrinsically vicious? It is a dog! sometimes they attack or chase prey! that is why we as owners need to have total control.

[luvofallhorses]

Staffs are such sweet dogs! We have an awesome amstaff mix at the shelter where I volunteer named Bocephus.


http://www.montanapets.org/bas/pictures/07-D0481.html

IMO that owner shouldn't have been beating that dog over the swan. It's called instinct and it's not the dog's fault it has a high prey drive. however, I am NOT saying I'd let my dog kill any animal whether it's a swan or a squirrel. there are better ways of handling the situation than beating YOUR dog to death if the dog attacks another animal. there is special pepper spray for dogs for that reason. better than beating the living hell out of the dog IMO. I would never beat my dogs over that, I would use the pepper spray that they make for dogs. I cannot believe a few of you would beat your dog if the dog attacked an animal.

[wolfsoul]

there is special pepper spray for dogs for that reason. better than beating the living hell out of the dog IMO. I would never beat my dogs over that, I would use the pepper spray that they make for dogs. I cannot believe a few of you would beat your dog if the dog attacked an animal.

You carry pepper spray? How many people out there carry pepper spray in the case that their dog attack someone or something? As was said, the owner didn't know his dog would attack anything. Even if your dog is the nicest dog in the world, it is still an animal with feelings, emotion, and reactions -- it still has the ability, potential, and physical traits that allow it to kill something. Does that mean we should all carry pepper spray? We didn't have pepper spray when my neighbor's dog killed my cat. What was our other option? If a dog was attacking your child, and you didn't have pepper spray, what would you do? Not only that --but pepper spray has been known to cause sudden death. I would hate to be responsible for both the death or serious injuries to both the dog in question as well as the attackee.

I completely agree that the dog should not have been offleash. However, I find it much easier said than done to teach a dog to stop killing whatever is in it's mouth. The problem with "calling a dog off" is that when you have a particularily drivey dog, in drive, it may or may not listen. Ask Glacier how easy it is to call a Siberian husky off small prey. 99% impossible. It is one thing to teach a normal dog to drop a ball or a stick. It is a completely different thing to command a dog to drop whatever it is killing when it is in drive mode. I have drivey dogs, I've trained drivey dogs -- I have been bitten to the point of blood and bruises from otherwise completely friendly animals, all because they were in drive and I was preventing them from doing what they wanted to do.

[Love That Collie]

You carry pepper spray? How many people out there carry pepper spray in the case that their dog attack someone or something? As was said, the owner didn't know his dog would attack anything. Even if your problem with "calling a dog off" is that when you have a particularily drivey dog, in drive, it may or may not listen. they were in drive and I was preventing them from doing what they wanted to do.

I don't fool with pepper spray but that's not to say that it probably wouldn't do the job nine times out of ten but my luck I'd be the tenth example around here, we have a loose dog problem in our county and with dogs NOT being contained properly even on their own property, vicious or not........I carry Mace tear gas, IT does the job and I have used it.

[CathyBogart]

I own a very driven terrier-type dog and I would never be stupid enough to let him off leash in an area where, say....a squirrel might run by. It would be sheer idiocy on my part to do something like that, to put him a position where he is bound to fail.

When I've seen dogs get into it at the park, the best solution I've seen (if the owners don't have control) is to grab them by their hand legs and drag them away from the action. Sure works better that trying to BEAT a dog into submission.

No, Staffs are not all aggressive, and almost never are they "vicious". Any breed can bite, maim, or kill a person.

[DrKym]

I am really suprised at some responses, my point was that this dog was so savagely attacking this poor innocent swan who was doing nothing more than sitting by the bank of the river, it was so full of blood lust that the only way to save the swan was to beat it, what would you have done in that situation? The owner was distraught that his dog could do such a thing, he seemed like a nice bloke only seconds before he and the dog were playing fetch, and this is my question are these dogs so intrinsically vicious that no matter what, there true instinct will always come out? (The police were called as in England swans are the Queens property so I am sure that it was given medical attention.)

See my previous post.

The owner had no business having any animal not under control, off or on lead.

I have had a few of my dogs over the years react to other animals, A rottie that went after a chicken ...with the intent to shred it. It was dropped immediatley on command. Did the chicken live? as far as I know yes, it was minus a wing though and I paid the vet bills for it. I did not have to beat my dog, nor did it ever occur to me to do so.

A dane that decided the squirell was way more fun to shake than chase, again, it was released on command.

Maybe it is me but I feel if you intend to own a powerful animal, and in my book that is any animal, your responsibility is to teach, train, reinforce and be responsible for it. This owner clearly missed on a few of those.

It isn't the breeds per se, it is the ignorance of the breeds.

You state this animal was full of "blood lust", that is a trait that is held by trained animals taught to kill and to keep at that endeavour against all odds.
Mayhap, this owner wasn't the nice bloke he appears?

In any event, the answers you seek are on several threads here. I will reiterate that all dogs can bite. Some are bred to, and sadly many are taught to for the wrong purposes.

[gwen]

Maybe its me but I dont understand why the dogs life is of more value than the swan. Isnt it possible that with all the best intentions and good training some creatures arent meant to be pets. I understand that if I had a lion as a pet and at some point it attacked someone, it could be said it is just its nature. So why couldnt that be true of these terrier type dogs if it is there nature then surely it is irresponsible to own such dogs. It was a swan this time but what if it was a child.

[gwen]

The dog was fine by the way after he spat out the swans feathers the owner put him on his lead and tied him to a post.

[GreyhoundGirl]

tied him to a post.

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

[gwen]

Gosh!!! The man tied the dog to the post so he could tend to the swan that had been savaged by the dog. And I imagine so the dog couldnt attack any one else.

[Kalei]

That might be part of the reason he's aggresive...

I think what GreyhoundGirl means is that you might not know that the owner keeps the dog tied up outside all the time of its life. And a chained dog is never going to be completely nice and tame.

[DrKym]

Ask Glacier how easy it is to call a Siberian husky off small prey. 99% impossible.


I am pretty certain that Glacier has researched her breed, to the point of being an expert, therefore wouldn't have had her dog off lead in a park to begin with.................I would also think that any other Husky owner would agree that small prey drive is high in the breed. Different between individuals, but a trait to consider nonetheless.

Can we say the same of the nice bloke? Or for that matter Gwen who has had her question answered several ways several times in this thread alone.

What she wants to hear is that this breed is awful.What she wants to hear is that it could have been a child. What she wants to hear is that it is the NATURE of the animal.

My own dogs are a breed that can have a high prey drive. Therefore I am constantly working with them to drop anything on command. Including their dinner.

Again I urge this person to read her own thread, and understand that her answers have been given.

As for the lion comment, if they were also a domesticated specie, then your parralel holds water, as they are not, it doesn't

[Miss Z]

Gwen, I see that you are also a member of the UK here. I suppose you heard on the news a while back about the pit bull that mauled and killed a little girl near Wigan? Now, I won't delve into that crisis, but I'm sure you heard about it. Since then, pitties and 'pit-bull type dogs' have been sufferring great 'discrimination', if you will.

I don't know how much you know about the situation in much of the USA, but in many states these dogs are banned because of unfair prejudice. True, they were designed as fighting dogs and are shaped for it, but they also have a brain which can be moulded by firm and caring hands. Think of it this way, a baby up for adoption could be placed in one of two homes. One home is a small cottage in the countryside with a middle-class family who have always wanted children and have their best interests at heart. The other are a young couple with a criminal record, living in a dodgy part of town and have an unstable relationship. Either of those homes can shape the SAME child's mind, purely on the way they bring it up. The same goes for dogs.

This prejudice against pit bull type dogs is spreading fast and soon it won't be long before pits are put down on the streets here. I don't know if you watched much news coverage of the incident I mentioned above, but I saw one report on ITV of police removing pit bull dogs from a home, claiming them to be vicious and a public risk. Now, on that report, I saw not one 'dangerous' dog. I saw men dragging out dogs on their knees. I saw men hoisting dogs into carriers and them peering out as if to say 'what did I do?'. No, I did not see vicious dogs, I saw SCARED dogs.

In this situation, as others have said, the beating and the tying up reflect the attitude of this owner. If he is not capable of training a strong dog to heel when commanded he should get a goldfish.

You seem a nice person, and I would just like to warn you that you will meet much resistance to any stereo-typing of pit-bull type dogs. We have many pit bull lovers here and it breaks their hearts everytime they see a thread like this. Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

[gwen]

Thanks Miss Z, yes I have seen all the coverage about that, I know that any breed of dog can 'turn' I remember when there was a big deal made about rotweilers(spelling?) My point was that almost without exception all the staffs and english bull terriers I have came across seem to be very aggressive. I guess it could be that in england anyway the type of person that would want this type of dog want it for that very purpose and dont encurage all the positive points in this dog. Which is a whole other debat I guess.