My dog is well behaved indoors not outdoors

[gwen]

Hey thanks for some more replies, I bought a gentle leader and it has changed my life, he doesnt drag me around any longer and although the sight of another dog gets him excited I am able to control him and once he realises he cant get to the dog he chills out. We went to a park today, something before I got the gentle leader would have been my worst nightmare. We stopped and chatted to other dog owners and we walked past about 15 dogs its early days but Im very hopeful that in time he will chill out and be nonchalant about other dogs.

[whalelover]

Sounds like you're on the right track with the gentle leader. As for the excitement of the other dogs, walk him by your side (not in front) and when he begins to get excited (the first sign is the ears perking up, right at that moment) you do a quick, firm jerk of the leash to the side. This results in him snapping out of it. You can also tap him in the side with your foot, which works well also in getting him out of the unwanted zone. (note-this is not a kick!).

[gwen]

I will give that a try, as I've said my dog doesnt pay the blindest bit of attention to me once we are on the street, the gentle leader works because it gives me the more strength than him so I can physical prevent him from getting to the other dog. I could let off firework in his ear (not that I would by the way) my point is I become invisible to him regardless of treats etc once we are out. Its odd because as soon as we are back in the garden he becomes obedient and he is my best mate indoors he follows me everywhere. We do tricks and he wil sit, stay, lay down shake hands all day long. But outside I cant even get him to look at me.

[Canis-Lupess]

I would strongly advise against any jerking of the leash or tapping on his side.

This will further convince him that other dogs are bad news because he will only feel this unpleasant sensation when they are around. It will teach him to become more aggressive towards other dogs rather than teaching him to stop being aggressive.
People who's dogs show aggression in this way naturally do things like this to try and teach their dog not to do it. Unfortunately, they end up teaching the dog the wrong thing as punishment in general tends to do. The dog becomes more aggressive as a result. Please don't do anything like that if you want to improve his behaviour towards other dogs.

The dog doesn't get it that he's being jerked because he's being aggressive, he thinks it's only happening because there is another dog there so he tries even harder to drive that dog away.

[Canis-Lupess]

After some reading up and research, I came up with this.

Dogs are pack animals as we know but many people don't realise that rank reversal can change depending on what environment we are in. In some places, the dog might regard you as alpha because you just happen to act that way but, somewhere else, you inadvertently give him this role, in your case when you go outside, and then he takes the role of alpha.

The reason I thought this may apply because the following is about a dog that behaves himself perfectly when at the training school but becomes very disobedient again once they leave the training school and, in that way, makes it quite similar to your case.

" Question
I have been attending training classes with my eighteen month old pointer since he was 6 months old. In the class he is the star pupil and he has won a lot of club competitions which are held regularly. However, outside the class he is still extremely disobedient. He pulls on the lead, he won't come back when I call him and he is terrible with visitors to the house - he just won't leave them alone.
He just wants to be friendly, but I know that not everyone likes dogs. If I shut him in another room he barks like mad and scratches the door. Why won't he behave himself outside the class, the way he does inside?

Answer
Teaching the dog what you mean by certain words of command is only part of the training process. As a direct descendant of the wolf, the dog retains a very strong pack instinct and, in a pack, rank has its privileges. If, at home, you are allowing your dog the privileges of high rank, then he will see you as the underdog and someone who has no right to tell him what to do. This is the same in any species that operates in a hierarchical rank structure. Allowing your dog to procede you through doorways and passageways or gateways; allowing him to occupy your bed and chairs but respecting his sleeping area as his alone; feeding him before you eat; allowing him to beg for food from your table - all these are privileges of rank. By inadvertently promoting your dog, you lose the right to lead and control. He may obey you in the dog club, but within that environment he has no other choice. If, however, when the instructor opens the door at the end of the lesson, your dog pulls you out, you have just allowed him to regain the rank that you have tried to take off him in the lesson.
Rank also has responsibilities and among these are that he should lead the pack - that's why he still pulls on the lead, it is his job to be out there in front; to keep the pack together - that's why he will not come back to you when you call, it is not you job; to defend the den - that's why he is so troublesome with your visitors, he is not being friendly, he is making sure that they move around on his terms but in a passive and not an aggressive way. What right do you have to isolate a higher ranking animal, especially when there are intruders in his den?
That's why he complains so much when you try to do so. None of these problems has anything to do with training, they are all to do with attitude. If you get the attitude right and your dog sees you as leader, all your previous training will pay dividends. if you make sure that the privileges of rank are yours, everything else will slot into place."

Hopefully, this will help you understand a little more why your dog acts in a similar way but with the added problem of him being aggressive towards other dogs. If he thinks he is leader, he might think it is his job to protect the pack from intruders which is why he goes mad on seeing other dogs rather than leaving this decision to you. If you punish him, it would make his behaviour worse for the reasons I stated in the above post, and the reason he won't take any notice of you when out is because of what is described above also. A lower ranking individual cannot demand the attention of a higher ranking individual so he ignores you when you do try to demand it. You may need to look at the rank structure within your canine/human pack and demote your dog to help with this behaviour.

Indoors, he may view you as higher but, outdoors, he is probably thinking that the role of alpha is handed over to him.

[Canis-Lupess]

Here is another case that John Fisher answered about a germen shepherd who was showing the same aggression towards other dogs that yours is and explains why you should never jerk the lead or use any type of punishment correction methods to treat this.

"Question
My 2 year old german shepherd dog is very aggressive towards all dogs when he is with me. It doesn't matter whether it is a dog or a bitch, a puppy or an adult; as soon as he sees them he flies out at them. If I spot the dog first, I give him a sharp check on his choke chain to bring him to heel, about turn him and walk in the other direction. If he spots it first, he often takes me by surprise and, even though I am a big built man, he has pulled me off my feet on more than a few occasions. I have sent him away for training and when I collected him he was running loose in a compound with four or five other dogs with no trouble at all. The trainer said that the kennel maid used to walk him on the lead through the local town and he was no trouble when they met another dog. None of the dog club instructors who have walked him have ever experienced any problems. My vet has castrated him, but that made no difference at all. Do you think he is being over-protective towards me and, if so, what can I do about it?

Answer
There may be an element of protective behaviour involved and it would be well for you to refer to the rank reversal procedures to ensure that your dog sees you as the protector of the territory. But I am more inclined to think that the way you have been handling the situation has had the greatest influence upon your dog's aggressive behaviour. The fact that it is non-selective aggression (all dogs, regardless of status); the fact that he will run free with other dogs; the fact that he does not behave aggresssively with other people would all point to the fact that he is not an aggressive dog by nature. Therefore, the behaviour must be learned and the common denominator is you.
If you think about it from your dog's point of view, whenever a dog appears on the horizon, you give him a sharp, and possibly painful tug on the chain and head off in the other direction. Now that would not have happened if the other dog had not appeared, therefore it must be the other dog's fault. The presence of another dog has become a prelude to him getting punished. I know what I would do if I were your dog. I would try to chase off the other dog before you saw it. When other people have got hold of his lead, he has not been punished and so there was no need to show aggression.
I can understand the fact that once the dog starts to become aggressive the owner starts to lose confidence and, as a result, starts to overreact. But it is this overreaction that creates a vicious circle and compounds the problem. There are two problems to overcome:

1. To increase your confidence
2. To change the dog's expectations about what the presence of another dog means and therefore reduce the aggression.

This should be done in the following ways:

A) Change the choke chain to a broad leather collar so that there is no pain-associated element involved.
B)Change the short restrictive lead to a strong flexi leash. This will increase your dog's freedom of movement, and that in itself will have a calming effect.
C) Temporarily, fit him with a soft muzzle (mikki muzzle are ideal and obtainable from most petshops). This is to ensure that there can be no damage if he does take you by surprise, but it is primarily designed to increase your confidence. This type of muzzle is designed to restrict the movement of the dog's jaw, making biting impossible but allowing you to feed the dog, which is the next stage. (Do not leave it on too long in hot weather!)
D) If he usually gets three walks a day, make sure that you split his daily food ration into three equal portions. These should be further split into three or four smaller portions and put into a plastic bag to be taken with you on a walk. For the next week or so, your dog will only get fed when out walking, with a portion being given after he meets another dog.

The procedure will be as follows. When you see another dog, be prepared for him to lunge out, which he surely will out of habit. Do not apply the brake of the flexi leash until he does, so that you do not transmit your tension to him. Stop him if he does lunge - the collar will ensure that he does not feel any pain - but do not say anything negative. Gently call him back to you and take a portion of food from your pocket. Let him have that portion and continue walking. Repeat the procedure until he has had a third of his daily ration and then go home. Keep a portion handy in case you meet another dog.
Although this may sound as if you will be giving him a reward for lunging out at other dogs, in fact it will have the reverse effect. Because he will not be punished, either physically or verbally, when another dog appears, he will begin to view other dogs as a prelude to being fed. When you reach the stage when he looks at you when another dog appears, you can despense with the muzzle. Quite soon, the food reward can be replaced with the occasional tit-bit, or a game with his favourite toy, or just some verbal praise."

Hope this question and answer helps you in overcoming your own dog's aggression towards other dogs.
Use info in the above post to also address any rank issues that may exist.

[gwen]

Thank you so much for all your advice, I am going to give it a try.