Mr. Biggles is being put to sleep tomorrow

[areias]

Pleading here, have you done any NILIF (nothing in life is free) training? That would be step #1. This can be solved. If it is solved, then no it won't happen again. I swear to god, I'd pay for you to ship him to me if there weren't children in this household.

[caseysmom]

I think you could find a jrt rescue group that would be happy to take him. Someone familiar with jrt's needs him, that breed definetely is a handful and it doesn't sound like your in a situation to deal with him right now, please call a rescue.

[Catlady711]

In the states home owners insurance policies can be cancelled if you have a known agressive dog. In the states also you can face personal lawsuits from a person bitten, whether friend or delivery person, and have to pay court costs, medical bils, and pain & suffering which can be very costly. And in most states there are dog bite laws that will have the biting dog PTS, particularly if it's not a first offence.

I took the liberty of looking up the Dog Owners Liability Act of Ontario and found the following information...

(1) The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (1).

(3) The liability of the owner does not depend upon knowledge of the propensity of the dog or fault or negligence on the part of the owner, but the court shall reduce the damages awarded in proportion to the degree, if any, to which the fault or negligence of the plaintiff caused or contributed to the damages. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (3).

(3) If, in a proceeding under subsection (1), the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, and the court is satisfied that an order is necessary for the protection of the public, the court may order,
(a) that the dog be destroyed in the manner specified in the order

5. When, in a proceeding under section 4, the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, the court may make an order prohibiting the dog’s owner from owning another dog during a specified period of time. 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6; 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (14).

Proceedings against owner of dog
4. (1) A proceeding may be commenced in the Ontario Court of Justice against an owner of a dog if it is alleged that,
(a) the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal;
(b) the dog has behaved in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals; or
(c) the owner did not exercise reasonable precautions to prevent the dog from,
(i) biting or attacking a person or domestic animal, or
(ii) behaving in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals. 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (6).




And I HAVE to comment on this.....

I was watching Animal Cops last night and it made me so mad A dog came in off the streets after being abandoned(That sticks for life in there heads i dont care what anyone has to say about that)Anyways they were doing a temeperment test,She put that rubber hand in the food dish and pulled it away,The dog snapped offcourse(THE DOG HAD BEEN STARVED FOR HOWEVER LONG,WOULDNT YOU SNAP)Anyhow the dog was put to sleep because it was"Food Aggressive".With an appropriate trainer you could most likely fix his problems these people can read your animals minds and know what to look for,

They use the testing methods they do to simulate real life situations the dogs may encounter in a new home whether accidental or deliberate. I think it's far better they test them first rather than adopt out an animal that may attack or even kill someone without knowing what kind of temperment they have.


Not knowing which animal cops you were watching (New York, Huston, Detroit) however in all cases those places that take the animals in for treatment are ASPCA. Those places are basically funded by donations, not federal money. There is only so much money to save/treat x amount of animals. As we all know there are millions of homeless, abused, neglected, abandoned animals out there needing homes. There are only so many homes available for all these animals.

To spend the extra $$ to pay for special training for agressiveness, the additional food & medical care the dog would need in the meantime would cost alot! That money and time could be used to spend on probably saving FIVE other animals in more dire circumstances that are perfectly adoptable. The more adoptions, the more money comes in, AND opens up cage space for yet another animal to be saved. By keeping a known agressive animal, spending the money on training that may or may not work, jeopardizing the staff in the meantime with an agressive dog, and taking time, money and cage space, would put other animals that need help and are adoptable at risk of not being helped.

Sometimes you have to look at the numbers. Sometimes it's necessary to sacrifice a few to save many.

[king2005]

Catlady711 thank you for that.

[Catlady711]

Catlady711 thank you for that.

You're welcome.

I totally understand the legal liability & consequences that influence your decision.

Besides an ethical/reputable vet would never agree to PTS a healthy animal without extenuating circumstances, such as an attack/mauling. However in the interest of the safety of humans and other animals most will agree to do it in a case like this. They don't like doing it anymore than other people, but they also understand the legal liabilities and consequences of it. And most laws are designed to protect humans as well as other animals from such incidents.

On a side note, we recently had to PTS a dog that was agressive despite a loving home and good care it was getting now. It was a rescue foster dog from a troubled home and she was his last chance also. The catalist event that caused the owner to schedule this appointment was that the dog had killed another dog in the house. The owner was distraught at not only having to make a decision like that about this dog, but she'd seen the mauling happen and was horrified at watching the other dog die at the mouth of this one. She loved both dogs very much.

[Lori Jordan]

In the states home owners insurance policies can be cancelled if you have a known agressive dog. In the states also you can face personal lawsuits from a person bitten, whether friend or delivery person, and have to pay court costs, medical bils, and pain & suffering which can be very costly. And in most states there are dog bite laws that will have the biting dog PTS, particularly if it's not a first offence.

I took the liberty of looking up the Dog Owners Liability Act of Ontario and found the following information...

(1) The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (1).

(3) The liability of the owner does not depend upon knowledge of the propensity of the dog or fault or negligence on the part of the owner, but the court shall reduce the damages awarded in proportion to the degree, if any, to which the fault or negligence of the plaintiff caused or contributed to the damages. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (3).

(3) If, in a proceeding under subsection (1), the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, and the court is satisfied that an order is necessary for the protection of the public, the court may order,
(a) that the dog be destroyed in the manner specified in the order

5. When, in a proceeding under section 4, the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, the court may make an order prohibiting the dog’s owner from owning another dog during a specified period of time. 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6; 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (14).

Proceedings against owner of dog
4. (1) A proceeding may be commenced in the Ontario Court of Justice against an owner of a dog if it is alleged that,
(a) the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal;
(b) the dog has behaved in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals; or
(c) the owner did not exercise reasonable precautions to prevent the dog from,
(i) biting or attacking a person or domestic animal, or
(ii) behaving in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals. 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (6).




And I HAVE to comment on this.....



They use the testing methods they do to simulate real life situations the dogs may encounter in a new home whether accidental or deliberate. I think it's far better they test them first rather than adopt out an animal that may attack or even kill someone without knowing what kind of temperment they have.


Not knowing which animal cops you were watching (New York, Huston, Detroit) however in all cases those places that take the animals in for treatment are ASPCA. Those places are basically funded by donations, not federal money. There is only so much money to save/treat x amount of animals. As we all know there are millions of homeless, abused, neglected, abandoned animals out there needing homes. There are only so many homes available for all these animals.

To spend the extra $$ to pay for special training for agressiveness, the additional food & medical care the dog would need in the meantime would cost alot! That money and time could be used to spend on probably saving FIVE other animals in more dire circumstances that are perfectly adoptable. The more adoptions, the more money comes in, AND opens up cage space for yet another animal to be saved. By keeping a known agressive animal, spending the money on training that may or may not work, jeopardizing the staff in the meantime with an agressive dog, and taking time, money and cage space, would put other animals that need help and are adoptable at risk of not being helped.

Sometimes you have to look at the numbers. Sometimes it's necessary to sacrifice a few to save many.

It was a puppy for god sake!It actually was New York Animal Precingt

[kimlovescats]

In the states home owners insurance policies can be cancelled if you have a known agressive dog. In the states also you can face personal lawsuits from a person bitten, whether friend or delivery person, and have to pay court costs, medical bils, and pain & suffering which can be very costly. And in most states there are dog bite laws that will have the biting dog PTS, particularly if it's not a first offence.

I took the liberty of looking up the Dog Owners Liability Act of Ontario and found the following information...

(1) The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (1).

(3) The liability of the owner does not depend upon knowledge of the propensity of the dog or fault or negligence on the part of the owner, but the court shall reduce the damages awarded in proportion to the degree, if any, to which the fault or negligence of the plaintiff caused or contributed to the damages. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (3).

(3) If, in a proceeding under subsection (1), the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, and the court is satisfied that an order is necessary for the protection of the public, the court may order,
(a) that the dog be destroyed in the manner specified in the order

5. When, in a proceeding under section 4, the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, the court may make an order prohibiting the dog’s owner from owning another dog during a specified period of time. 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6; 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (14).

Proceedings against owner of dog
4. (1) A proceeding may be commenced in the Ontario Court of Justice against an owner of a dog if it is alleged that,
(a) the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal;
(b) the dog has behaved in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals; or
(c) the owner did not exercise reasonable precautions to prevent the dog from,
(i) biting or attacking a person or domestic animal, or
(ii) behaving in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals. 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (6).




And I HAVE to comment on this.....



They use the testing methods they do to simulate real life situations the dogs may encounter in a new home whether accidental or deliberate. I think it's far better they test them first rather than adopt out an animal that may attack or even kill someone without knowing what kind of temperment they have.


Not knowing which animal cops you were watching (New York, Huston, Detroit) however in all cases those places that take the animals in for treatment are ASPCA. Those places are basically funded by donations, not federal money. There is only so much money to save/treat x amount of animals. As we all know there are millions of homeless, abused, neglected, abandoned animals out there needing homes. There are only so many homes available for all these animals.

To spend the extra $$ to pay for special training for agressiveness, the additional food & medical care the dog would need in the meantime would cost alot! That money and time could be used to spend on probably saving FIVE other animals in more dire circumstances that are perfectly adoptable. The more adoptions, the more money comes in, AND opens up cage space for yet another animal to be saved. By keeping a known agressive animal, spending the money on training that may or may not work, jeopardizing the staff in the meantime with an agressive dog, and taking time, money and cage space, would put other animals that need help and are adoptable at risk of not being helped.

Sometimes you have to look at the numbers. Sometimes it's necessary to sacrifice a few to save many.

This is a very good and rational post! I would / could NEVER forgive myself if my pet injured or even killed another human being!!! Mr. Biggles is a senior dog, (if I remember correctly) who Jess has given a chance at a loving home. For whatever reason, it is obvious that he is just not going to adjust at this point in his life. It is very sad for him, but certainly not Jess's fault and NOT worth the risk of causing harm to another human being.

[elizabethann]

This is a very good and rational post! I would / could NEVER forgive myself if my pet injured or even killed another human being!!! Mr. Biggles is a senior dog, (if I remember correctly) who Jess has given a chance at a loving home. For whatever reason, it is obvious that he is just not going to adjust at this point in his life. It is very sad for him, but certainly not Jess's fault and NOT worth the risk of causing harm to another human being.

Mr. Biggles is a senior? I didn't know that. I've been trying to keep up with the posts and it's hard to do. King2005, do you think Mr. Biggles has problems with his eye sight? So when Chad opened the door, Mr. Biggles just freaked because he couldn't see very well? You may want to ask your vet about that. However, I'm not sure what they can do to help him if it was his eye sight.

[king2005]

Mr. Biggles is a senior? I didn't know that. I've been trying to keep up with the posts and it's hard to do. King2005, do you think Mr. Biggles has problems with his eye sight? So when Chad opened the door, Mr. Biggles just freaked because he couldn't see very well? You may want to ask your vet about that. However, I'm not sure what they can do to help him if it was his eye sight.

I asked about his health when we adopted him (he was with the vet the day before getting a check up), & he was in fab. health for an old guy.. ok his teeth were gonan need a cleaning soon, but that was it.

Mr. Biggles has 20/20.. he can see a tiny dim light & chase it all over the place at a really fast pace! He can hear too well aswell.. I cannot sneek around the house without him hearing me... I'm quiet as a mouse, to the point he guys have no idea where I am 1/2 the time.. but Mr. Biggles hears me everytime & would run up to me wanting to be picked up & ruining my cover.

[Lori Jordan]

Why this post has botherd me the most is I HAVE BEEN THERE! And i never looked at Bandit any different,I had him in classes,But trust me it was frustrating every time someone showed up id put him in his Kennel outside,Which in a way may not have been fair,But everyone was safe and there was no there situations harming no one.

As most of you know i joined here after i lost Bandit I lost him due to a hit and run,I hate to say this but after he has passed it was like a big brick was lifted off my shoulders,I loved him but i was always on edge,And if he was still here i would never make that horrible desicion,Id have to DEAL with it best i could.


Maybe i am a bad person,I do tend to put my babies before others and if people dont like it,Oh well move on!My kids come first offcourse,But my animals need me more than they do now,That they are nearly grown.

I went the extra mile,I dont see King doing that,One inncident happend who knows what is going on in his head,He needs some guidance,Any of us can turn over and start a new leaf,But giving up dont put us no where,My SIL put her Aussie down last August,Lacy and Jake did not come from the"Best Breeders" By far,And Lacy had overcome some things.

Jake was in classed,Had a behavioralist in the Home twice a week,He had bit a neighbor,And after he would stalk people he turned on me,He lunged at me we are not sure why But these things do happen,This dog needs something another chance and if not given you will have to live with the desicion you made for the rest of your life,My SIL does everyday she says "what if" Do you want to have to ask yourself that question everyday? I know i wouldnt.

I am very puzzled to this i dont have enough answers,I Just dont think Chad is stable enough,If you have to move do it,Atleast you know your animals will be safe,I dont care who you are on medication you do thinks withought thinking..

[pitc9]

Just my 2 cents.....

When a dog has a problem, ANY problem no matter what the problem is, introducing a shock collar like you did to try to change the barking behavior can make a small problem big or can create other problems.

I don't know when you started using it, when the first bite happened, how often the collar was used, how long it was kept on, what setting it was on. It doesn’t matter; maybe the shock collar triggered something, maybe something from his past.

This entire thing is sad... from the second you adopted them it's been one thing after another, and it's obviously been more than you 2 can handle.
I hope and pray that if you ever think about adopting again you'll think VERY long and hard about it before getting in over your head like you did to yourself here.

I pray for Mr. Biggles and I hope if he does make the trip to RB that it will be peaceful. I pray for Bear and her quality of life.

I hope you and Chad find a way to become mentally stable for one another and find a way to survive in a healthy environment together and I pray you don't get any other dogs.