Two stories about medicine that trouble me.

[RICHARD]

When my parents had my tonsils removed so I would be sick less and have less pain....all this time I thought they did it for me....Now you say, RICHARD, it was a selfish act (effing selfish in fact) on their part...so they could go square dancing without worrying about me getting sick I guess?

Those pesky tonsils that bleed monthy?

How was the ice cream?
--------------

There is a huge difference between a tonsillectomy appendectomy or putting
PE tubes into an ear of a kid that will continue to grow and carving out the repro organs and giving the kid hormones to stunt her growth.

Why not go for the Deluxe package?


Catheterization, a colostomy bag and the tonsillectomy for the pill0w angel?

No more sore throat and soiled diapers?

Make it real easy.

[Edwina's Secretary]

There is a huge difference between a tonsillectomy

And what is the difference? Organ that will never be used? That will only cause pain?

There are far more "selfish" (your word NOT mine) decisions they could have made.

And you talk like menstruation is some great privilege....only a man...

[mike001]

Richard, after reading all of your posts I have come to the conclusion that you are on a soapbox.
How dare you judge these parents? They have chosen to sacrifice their lives for their child instead of opting to put her in an institution. To me that spells a lot of love and sacrifice on their part, plus the heartbreak they go through every day.
I for one was totally in favor of their decision. As they grow older it would be very hard to lift, carry and cope with this child. They had long discussions with specialists before coming to this decision and it was considered the best route for the child's welfare. If you think they did this without an ounce of suffering or guilt, think again. They did it so they could keep her safe at home. And in the event of their death, they knew she would be institutionalized, and took means to prevent any sexual abuse.
If you think this doesn't happen you're living in a bubble of your own making, I hate to be the one to burst it, but it happens even in nursing homes to the elderly patients who are unable to communicate.
Please get off your soapbox and educate yourself. This was their decision, not yours. Stop judging them as though what they did was a criminal offence.
I for one feel nothing but admiration and compassion for this family.
If you even know what compassion is, try to show some.
God will be their judge, you haven't been called on to do this. Maybe you should examine the reasons for all this hate you seem to bottle up inside.

[Cataholic]

He is just trolling here, folks. He **can't** back down, lest he appear 'wrong' for once again posting such insensitive posts. It happened once, that can be deemed a fluke. Twice? Nah...that might actually mean something.

[Lobodeb]

Wow! This is really an interesting story.

My brother is mentally and physically disabled. He is 34 years old, is 5' 3" tall and weighs 150 pounds. He is blind and unable to speak. He is ambulatory, but with assistance. He requires assistance with all ADLs. He wears Depends 24/7, but is on a toileting schedule. He's stubborn as hell and very abstinent and near impossible to lift on your own. When he's not cooperating, it takes three men to move him. If you startle him, he throws a great right hook. And his nails must be kept short otherwise they're half of an inch into your flesh. He has been beaten and both physically and sexually abused by his caretakers. We do not have the means or the skills required to care for him.

I once asked my mom if she knew he was going to be like this, if she would have had an abortion. Her reply? "Yes."

My point of talking about him is that he is extremely difficult (for lack of a better word) to care for. I tried working in an assisted living facility and couldn't do it. I worked in a house of 3 women. The times during their menstruation's was nauseating. Caring for yourself at this time of month is a pain in and of itself. Dealing with someone else's menses is in a league of its own. I am able to communicate my pain and discomfort, they hit, bit, kicked and scratched.

I can't imagine having to make these kinds of decisions for an ill child. I pray that I will never know what these people are going through. I will say this, though, having a hysterectomy doesn't guarantee no sexual abuse will come to this poor child. It just means there will be no evidence left behind if it does happen.

Richard, I understand feeling strongly about something, but I feel you're being a little defensive.

But this comment put me over the edge:

Because I don't have indoor plumbing that makes me unable to feel?


Geez, that smacks of sexism....just a little bit.

It seems that I always get hit with that argument.

I guess I am not entitled to an opinion because of my genetic makeup...sorry.

How is it that you can complain about sexism when you post this in a different thread?

Madam Speaker,

Men and women are created equal... until you try to keep your shoes dry doing Number 1!

Why is that always a measure of equality?

I can't say I would or wouldn't do things differently if I was in this couple's shoes. I'll never know. Neither will you.

[cassiesmom]

He has been beaten and both physically and sexually abused by his caretakers.

Oh, Lobodeb. I'm a nurse and this just breaks my heart. There is no reason - NONE - for caretakers to inflict pain or abuse on the ones for whom they are caring (not that I would call it caring at that stage).

My grandmother's husband lived in several nursing homes for the last years of his life due to a spinal cord injury. He had good caregivers and bad caregivers. When the care was lacking, he developed things like constipation, malnutrition, urinary tract infections and pressure ulcers. When the care was good, his health was also good. I guess part of what these parents are doing is making their daughter physically easier to be cared for, so that she can remain as healthy as possible. I worked in a rehabilitation hospital for almost ten years - it was a heck of a lot of work and there were days when I was less than happy with the people I was caring for - but that never gave me license to do them harm.

[RICHARD]

Okay...so you think pain and suffering is noble and romantic.

THAT WAS UNCALLED FOR..


Imagine that, a Latin/Mexican male that can't sell romance.


Let's do this.

There are many wonderful attempts, thru the Modern Miracles of Science that allow parents and their children to lead fairly normal lives.


Cleft palate? Supernuerary digits? Cranial vault remodel? Nasty nevus?
People get their kids a sugery to help them lead normal lives.

I am not against all surgery, nor am I an advocate for pain and suffering.

I do have some qualms about parents having their kids operated on to insert bone into the legs to make them taller. Hormones because they are to slow to develop.

Designer tastes in parents? Designer kids!
The parents transfer their pain and suffering to their kids who undergo their own P&S.

Individual P&S is individual.
It measures differently from person to person.

My pain may be your party. We will never know about the PA's pain because she can't tell us.

And without her uterus we'll really never know about painful menses.

----------------------------

My basic beef with this whole topic is the fact that people can make very dramatic decisions for people in their care.

Just how much was the surgery for this child gonna benefit her?

The parents?

-------------------

So here is the 64 dollar question!

I know the answer, but let's play anyway.

You stroke out and will be coma for the rest of your days.
You will live on a respirator, in bed.

what's next?

For me, there is not quality of life issue there.

Pull my plug and let someone have my spot.

-------------------------

I guess putting loves notes into the XGF's underwear drawer wasn't romantic? .


P.S.

Pam,

Should I ever open my own cult or sect you will be on the list to sermonize for my followers!


Amen.

[critter crazy]

Richard, after reading all of your posts I have come to the conclusion that you are on a soapbox.
How dare you judge these parents? They have chosen to sacrifice their lives for their child instead of opting to put her in an institution. To me that spells a lot of love and sacrifice on their part, plus the heartbreak they go through every day.
I for one was totally in favor of their decision. As they grow older it would be very hard to lift, carry and cope with this child. They had long discussions with specialists before coming to this decision and it was considered the best route for the child's welfare. If you think they did this without an ounce of suffering or guilt, think again. They did it so they could keep her safe at home. And in the event of their death, they knew she would be institutionalized, and took means to prevent any sexual abuse.
If you think this doesn't happen you're living in a bubble of your own making, I hate to be the one to burst it, but it happens even in nursing homes to the elderly patients who are unable to communicate.
Please get off your soapbox and educate yourself. This was their decision, not yours. Stop judging them as though what they did was a criminal offence.
I for one feel nothing but admiration and compassion for this family.
If you even know what compassion is, try to show some.
God will be their judge, you haven't been called on to do this. Maybe you should examine the reasons for all this hate you seem to bottle up inside.

I agree 100%!!!

[K9soul]

While I am not in agreement with Richard's perceptions in this particular case, I respect his view on it. I don't believe he should judge this girl's parents but I also don't believe he should in turn be judged either. It is one thing to argue and disagree with a belief or an opinion but it seems to me in some posts that his heart and character are being questioned and judged here as a whole.

Ultimately I don't think anyone can imagine the weight or considerations of such a decision unless they are in these parents' shoes and know all the intricate details that there is no way we could ever know.

[Lobodeb]

Well said!

My reason for quoting the other thread was to point out that even in lightheartedness (if that was the intention), sexism was thrown out there.

I, personally think no less of Richard for his opinions on this thread. They're very strong, but that's ok in my mind because he's standing up for what he believes in. It's natural to come off as defensive when you feel you're being attacked. I love to read Richard's threads. He never fails to amuse me. I think he is a very brilliant and witty man.

As I said earlier, I was a little put off by some of his comments, but that's why this thread is in the dog house, right?

I don't think I passed any judgements, and if I did, I apologize. That wasn't my intention.

[RICHARD]

Thanks.
No need to apologize.

When people agree they say, "Don't back down, stand for what you believe in."

When they disagree it's "Shut up and sit down!'

People who work with dependent children/spouses/others are a special breed.

It's a tough thankless job-I have had peripheral experience in it.

-----------

Having kids is a real job. Caring for them in every case is harder yet.

To me, there is no love greater than the care of a loved one. Cleaning up after them, caring for them before, is part of that love. It's harder to care for someone you do not know.

I have to say that after you finish cleaning a person, there is no greater feeling of accomplishment.
You have made a person more comfortable and kept them clean.

A little “poop and pee patrol” never hurts. But it’s startling to think that so many people find such disgust in caring for someone that cannot fend for them selves. We showed up on the earth and had someone do it for us, why not return the favor?

As a society we tend to take the easy route when we are confronted with a problem. The days when we’d “suck it up” are going, now we rely on a pill, surgery or technology to take care of or ills, all in the name of convenience.

When the chips are down and our true mettle is challenged, just toss in the cards and wait for the next hand.

Science will come to our rescue.

That’s far better than duty and love.

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P.S. I never went to kindergarten and I’m a tad over six foot, which makes soap boxes unnecessary and makes viewing parades, from the back row, a cinch!