White Shepherds

[NicoleLJ]

Wolfsoul all it is is racism. That is it. That is how I am many other see it. When the rumors are proven false with genetic testing and the dogs have proven to do the same as the "proper colors" but a few still choose to spread lies and hate about them then it is just racism. Some people need something to hate and take their anger and fustration on. So base their excuses on the color of a dog.

You and I and most others know the truth or are learning the truth about our wonderful dogs. Nothing that people who resfuse to open their eyes and ears say can change that. You and I will continue to educate the ones who truely want to learn and that is what matters.

I am sorry your friend went through that.
Nicole

[jackfrost]

Goes to show you that a title does not prove conformation, working ability, temperament, and especially health.

You're right a title isn't the be all and end all, BUT let me ask you a question.

How did the GSD gain its reputation as a service dog, for detection, SAR, military and police work, guardians of the home, loyal family companions, leaders of the blind, etc?? Thru careful breeding and testing the breeding stock and proving them. For GSD's it involves schutzhund that proves the breed worthiness. Maybe proves is the wrong word, but i'm sure you know what I mean. They didn't get their reputation by just breeding what every breeder wanted to consider a good dog. They were tested and judged against a standard. Ch show ratings don't mean a hill of beans as GSD breeding is working dog breeding or it is not GSD breeding. As said by the founder of the breed.

My point about the CGC, CGN, TDI, etc are certificates, yes they show you've done something with your dog. You can argue title, certifciate whatever, it doesn't matter. My point is that the tests are very basic and prove little of the capabilities of the dog. My intent is not to demean the title, but breed clubs have specific tests that show the drive and temperment of the breed and what they are capable of. The CGC, etc aren't one of those tests used to test and prove breeding stock, that is my point.

My breed's variety (the groenendael) suffers alot of hate and disrespect in the schutzhund and french ring venues because it is a black dog.

I have seen and been a part of training in your breed and many other black dogs, I don't really see the disrespect and hate towards black dogs like you claim. If we had white one's coming thru that wouldn't matter either. As i've said before its the BS I don't like. and there are what 4-5 or more posts since i've asked some specific questions and still I get words and excuses. Where are all these WGSD's that are working. Therapy dogs and service dogs are worlds apart, i'm not going to spell out the differences here.

When the rumors are proven false with genetic testing and the dogs have proven to do the same as the "proper colors" but a few still choose to spread lies and hate about them then it is just racism. Some people need something to hate and take their anger and fustration on. So base their excuses on the color of a dog.

Again, it has absolutely nothing to do with the color. Genetic testing doesn't prove anything about the working ability of the dog. I'm not spreading lies, i'm not spreading hate. If a very small handful of dogs from decades ago is all you have to prove that they're working dogs, its pitiful at best.

The white Shepherd is just that. A white Shepehrd. Anything a GSD can do a White Shepehrd can do. That is a fact. Genetic testing proved all teh old wives tails about whites to be false. It has been proven that Whites are just as healthy, intelligent, trainable and so forth as a GSD. Those are facts. If they choose to ignore facts let them.

So prove it, i'm still waiting. What titles do your dogs have? What have they proven? Being a therapy dog going to nursing homes proves nothing but a dog with stable temperment. You want to claim that wgsd's can do anything a GSD can do, then prove it. Get them on the field, test their nerve, test their courage, test their strenght, test their willingness to work alone and with a handler, test their physical attributes, do something. This talk is tiring. Again, you said you have lots of clubs that say they aren't uncommon, show me one. I've been around a while and been involved with people that have been even longer and like I said before there have been more JRT's, ACD's and Corgi's proving themselves on the field that WGSD's

So again test your breeding stock, quit making excuses. Just because some dogs have titles that are questionable doesn't make the titles wrong. It makes the unethical people that are skirting rules and breeding standards that are. The tests are still very real and very valuable, using that as an excuse not to do them is just laziness and unethical by any standards.

Again, if you're going to make claims, you better have something to back them up with. 2 WGSD's that were on police forces 20 years ago, or a WGSD that made SchH III 30 years ago is, like it was said before, an anomoly, a rarity, not common place. While i'm living in the dark ages, some of us should come back to reality.

[borzoimom]

Jackfrost- the US or Canada do not require a working title for breeding consideration- there are only a few breeds that do here ( like the Leo's) and even then- they are not accepted by the AKC..
Tell me- is it partly cloudy, or partly sunny where you are???? I think you would argue either points, when the weather doesnt depend on you to make a prediction.. If Nicole said partly cloudy- it sounds like to me you would argue " partly sunny"...

[wolfsoul]

I don't understand why someone who isn't breeding for schutzhund should have to do schutzhund? Heck, I AM breeding for schutzhund and not only are my dogs untitled in it, but I haven't even done any schutzhund yet.

There really is alot of prejiduce against the groenendael in protection sports, and the black GSD for that matter too -- we recently had a discussion on the Belgian list about GSDs vs Belgians, and the topic of black GSDs came up. It interests me that in working venues people can be so iffy about colours. If the dog can work, who cares? Even if you are right and the American white shepherd breed as a whole can not do schutzhund (even though that is not it's original purpose, such as your comparison with jack russells -- though they can do it, most do not simply because it isn't what it's intended to do), would you be so prejiduced against individual white dogs that do do schutzhund? Or is it just against the ones doing their original purpose, therapy work? The original intent of the GSD was a herding dog -- how many schutzhund GSDs do you see herding?

My inbox is empty Nicole!