White Shepherds

[wolfsoul]

I agree with borzoimom -- AKC is not the endall to breeds. There are thousands of breeds out there not registered with AKC -- white shepherds ARE registered with AKC, but as a GSD, not an AWS, and they can not be shown under AKC. Some other registries, such as UKC, do allow them to show as a seperate breed.

There is no difference in health problems -- the white in GSDs is a masking gene -- meaning that underneath the white it is still a black and tan, sable, black, bi-colour, etc -- it does not have the health problems associated with many other white "genes," such as homozygous "double" merling or albinism/partial albinism. It is a big myth that white shepherds have health problems.

[mike001]

Well, I have been doing some research as mentioned, and have contacted GSD breeders. Here is what I have learned from the most reputable breeders and some info that they mailed.
White Shepherds should not be bred, they carry too many genetic faults. To breed a white you must go back several generations and have proof that all the past dogs have tested negative for MEGAE-PRAA...you have to have several generations that prove negative for RTM. Most breeders of whites don't spend the money for these tests.
Also, problems such as hemophilia, rear dew claws, and heart problems are very prevalent due to the very small gene pool.
Thyroid and cardiac tests are also important but most breeders ignore this.
We are supposed to be bettering the breed, white shepherds do not do this.
Seems that is the reason for seperation.

[borzoimom]

I hate to tell you this, but all the problems you mentioned on in any shepherd in potential. As as matter of fact, the whites are LESS likely to have hip dysplasia- a genetic condition that runs rampant in the other colors! Cardio myophathy, spinal myophy etc are all present in the "colored" shepherds- unusual in the whites...

[jackfrost]

HD does not run rampant, there are many other breeds ahead of GSD's in that catagory about 40 of them or so and I don't think any other breed is as highly tested I think maybe Retrievers have the same number or so tested thru OFA, the rest aren't even close. As for breakdowns of White shepherds VS. GSD's, I have yet to see that stat. Plus you'd have a tough time convincing me that a color selected against since the very beginning of the breed and only bred by people breeding outside the standard for COLOR ONLY has a healthier animal. Sorry, but argue all you want, common sense just says it isn't so.

What's so hard to understand. They bred white's to white's to get white's. a very small gene pool. Those that are breeding "colored" GSD's to whites and still getting white's are using ones that have known white's in their pedigree. The top GSD's are not being studded out or using their brood bitches to breed to white dogs to improve them. It's not happening. If you love your dogs fine, but come back to reality please.

I myself have been involved in working dogs only a short time compared to a lot of people. I am a student of the breed and it's history. I have regular contact with people that have been involved in the working and training working dogs for longer than I've been alive and they nor I have ever seen a white shepherds doing the things GSDs are. Many people i know that have been in this stuff over 40 years have seen or heard of maybe one or two ever. I liken it to "designer dog " websites, they're above normal intelligence, they don't shed, they love every one, their best of every world.

[wolfsoul]

HD does not run rampant, there are many other breeds ahead of GSD's in that catagory about 40 of them or so and I don't think any other breed is as highly tested I think maybe Retrievers have the same number or so tested thru OFA, the rest aren't even close.

OFA is not reliable when trying to decide which breeds have HD more than others. I know if my dog got her X-rays done and the vet determined they would most likely come back OFA Dysplastic, I sure as heck wouldn't pay the money to send them in. The reason 99.9% of OFA x-rays that don't come back with numbers say the dog is only dysplatic in one hip is NOT just because hip dysplasia in one hip is more common -- it's because OFA looks at the hip joints TOGETHER rather than seperatly and grades them as such. If the other hip is truly in excellent shape, perhaps your grade as a whole may be better. Pennhipp is a better source for information as the vets must send the results in -- it is illegal if they don't. If you check with Pennhipp or ask your vet, I can guarantee you that the GSD is in the top 5 for hip dysplasia. We don't get alot of GSDs at the shop, and I'd say that GSDs make up the majority of dysplastic dogs we get.

I will also guarantee you that because there are less American white shepherd breeders than German shepherd breeders, and the American white shepherd breed was started in the day and age when we were more informed about health and temperament issues, that German shepherds are more likely to be dysplastic. More breeders, more health problems. White shepherds are also easier to show than GSDs -- if you look at pictures of many of them, they have ear placements and such that would never be acceptable in the GSD ring. Good reason to breed more for health and temperament, less for show. Belgians are the same way. Very easy breed to show as long as you have the temperament. Less of them, less to compete against.

It seems silly to me that people think just because they are breeding colours together, there is a limited gene pool. What if people were breeding black to black? Would there be a limited gene pool then? Of course not. If I bred strictly groenendael to groenendael, would I have a limited gene pool? No...And I'll bet you that there are more white GSDs registered with AKC and CKC than there are groenendael. Lines are one thing -- certain lines can be hard to get away from. But dogs in certain lines aren't always related, nor do lines always stay the same.

[NicoleLJ]

Every time I read someone saying that White Shepherd Breeders don't health test and so forth I laugh. I also laugh when people say they can not do the same as a GSD. Everything a GSD can do a WSD can do. If people think otherwise then they are living in teh dark ages and refuse to open their eyes to the facts. Color does not make the dog. Breeding does. It is that simple. I have been asked on other boards to provided proof that their are whites as police dogs, Sch. dogs, Service dogs and so forth. When I do the answer is always the same from the people who beleive the wives tales. "That dogs is a fluke. That is the only reason they are like that." It is halarious. If you don't like the white color fine. Don't own one. But don't lie about them and spread false info just because you don't like them. You don't judge people based on their color so why do it for dogs when all the wives tales have been proven false with Gentic testing. Also as for the health testing I have found that White Shepherd breeders are a lot more open about what is in their lines and a lot more active in trying to correct what is in their lines then the majority of GSD breeders. Great example of this is the White Shepherd Genetics Progect:

http://www.wsgenetics.org/

Which I am a proud participating member of. Yes there are bad breeders out there that don't do any testing. But guess what, there are a ton more BYB breeders in GSD's then there is in WS's. How do I know this? Common sense. There are WAY more GSD's then WS's. Here are facts. White Shepehrds are just as healthy as GSD's, White Shepherds can do everything a GSD can, White Shepherds have just as much of a chance of having genetic problems as a GSD no more or less. This is fact. Anyone who believes other wise is still living in teh dark ages of rumour before genetic testing. Like I said before. Color doesn't make the dog. Breeding does.
Nicole

[Danegirl2208]

Every time I read someone saying that White Shepherd Breeders don't health test and so forth I laugh. I also laugh when people say they can not do the same as a GSD. Everything a GSD can do a WSD can do. If people think otherwise then they are living in teh dark ages and refuse to open their eyes to the facts. Color does not make the dog. Breeding does. It is that simple. I have been asked on other boards to provided proof that their are whites as police dogs, Sch. dogs, Service dogs and so forth. When I do the answer is always the same from the people who beleive the wives tales. "That dogs is a fluke. That is the only reason they are like that." It is halarious. If you don't like the white color fine. Don't own one. But don't lie about them and spread false info just because you don't like them. You don't judge people based on their color so why do it for dogs when all the wives tales have been proven false with Gentic testing. Also as for the health testing I have found that White Shepherd breeders are a lot more open about what is in their lines and a lot more active in trying to correct what is in their lines then the majority of GSD breeders. Great example of this is the White Shepherd Genetics Progect:

http://www.wsgenetics.org/

Which I am a proud participating member of. Yes there are bad breeders out there that don't do any testing. But guess what, there are a ton more BYB breeders in GSD's then there is in WS's. How do I know this? Common sense. There are WAY more GSD's then WS's. Here are facts. White Shepehrds are just as healthy as GSD's, White Shepherds can do everything a GSD can, White Shepherds have just as much of a chance of having genetic problems as a GSD no more or less. This is fact. Anyone who believes other wise is still living in teh dark ages of rumour before genetic testing. Like I said before. Color doesn't make the dog. Breeding does.
Nicole

Great post Nicole