Full Out Rearing *Good Update!!!!

[areias]

: Pull back on the rains pretty hard and kick as hard as you can. Sounds pretty brutal, but it actually works. I'd hold on if I were you, because you dont know exactly how she's going to react. If she doesn't really respond, I would get a pair of "humane spurs" that look like this if you dont use spurs already... good luck, I hope you are able to make a decision!

I'm kinda nervous to do that too...she crow hops sometimes too. I can just see it, I think I'd be riding a rodeo bronc! When she does the spinning and rearing behavior, she feels very "hot", and almost like a coiled spring, if you know what I mean. I was thinking of spurs too, but I've never used them regularly except on some dud school horses, and I don't know how she'd react.

What about trying while under an oral "relaxer" such as B-Kalm or something? Maybe if it works, we can keep working on it and wean her off.

I am going to the library tomorrow to try and pick up some reading and videos. If I find something I like I will probably go ahead and buy the series.
Clinic is on Sunday, maybe the trainer will have some suggestions also. I guess he does a lot of groundwork so I'll probably be able to learn some new excercises.

[Vela]

Don't yank back on her mouth and kick her as hard as you can, first off you are sending mixed signals, secondly you have a high potential to get very hurt. She obviously has behavior issues and your fear is compounding it, which is perfectly understandable, it can be VERY scary when they act like that.

No one on this board has observed the behavior so don't take advice of this kind of nature from someone else who isn't present to see what is gonig on. Not every horse can or will tolerate this and the use of spurs, without finding out what the underlying problem is, is NOT going to help. Someone is going to get hurt if you try any of that at this point, potentially both you and the horse.

You need a professional and their opinion, you need to have her back and legs and mouth evaluated by a vet, you need to have saddle fit evaluated, and you need to have yourself and the horse evaluated by a trainer and/or clinician, like you are doing this weekend. Until then I'd stay off the horse until you get the rest of it sorted out. Because you are afraid, it is only making it worse. She doesn't trust you and you don't trust her, it's a BAD combination. I don't want to see you hurt.

There is something wrong with this horse and if it's a training issue it needs to be handled by someone who can do so appropriately, as your fear isn't allowing you to do it. If it's physical, then punishing her by yanking on her, kicking, her, and using spurs is just not okay to do. I'm glad you are doing some reading and I hope you can work things out, but don't go on the offensive with her or she will trust you even less then things will quickly get worse.

Because you are afraid of her rearing when you ride her, you are setting her up to do it be even getting on, she knows it will get you off and she doesn't want to be ridden by you becuse she doesn't trust you. A fearful rider generates fear and a lack of trust in the horse. If you are afraid, in her mind why should she trust you to tell her where to go?? Confidence and a relaxed approach is the only way to win her trust and show her she can folllow you without fearing you will put her in harm's way. You have to think like a horse. Horses don't follow the fearful timid horses in the herd, they follow the boss, you aren't being the boss because you are afraid of her rearing.

This is going to take work on your part, and perhaps with a trainer. You have taught her rearing gets you off, even if you didn't do it on purpose. Putting her away tacked up and not fed isn't going to stop it, she's not a kid in time out, she is an animal. You are going to have to really committ to starting over with this horse from the ground up to gain her trust, only then will she listen to you under saddle, there are no quick fixes now, so you'll have to decide if you are willing to put in the time to fix it.

[Tralee]

I had the same problem with the horse I have now. He was a dream when I first bought him, but after a while he started taking off towards the fence and would do a sliding stop right before the fence and rear up all the time. I had no idea what to do so I called a riding instructer and asked her what to do, all I had to do was : Pull back on the rains pretty hard and kick as hard as you can. Sounds pretty brutal, but it actually works. I'd hold on if I were you, because you dont know exactly how she's going to react. If she doesn't really respond, I would get a pair of "humane spurs" that look like this if you dont use spurs already... good luck, I hope you are able to make a decision!

How does this solve anything? You are giving the horses mixed signals.That would cause a horse to rear because they feel trapped. You have to leave somewhere for them to go. IMO it borderlines abusive. If you horse is grabbing the bit and bolting then you should give your hands, and push forward. Then you turn their head to the inside and circle them. If you don't give your hands you will be fighting against the horse. When you give the horse has nothing to pull back against.

[Toby's my baby]

How does this solve anything? You are giving the horses mixed signals.That would cause a horse to rear because they feel trapped. You have to leave somewhere for them to go. IMO it borderlines abusive. If you horse is grabbing the bit and bolting then you should give your hands, and push forward. Then you turn their head to the inside and circle them. If you don't give your hands you will be fighting against the horse. When you give the horse has nothing to pull back against.

Ok guys, I didn't mean pull back as hard as you can, just so that the rains aren't loose and the horse is gonna run away from you. It doesn't make any sense to let it run, you are just letting it get away with more. Works for me, and I'm sorry if you all have different opinions, I was only trying to help, sorry, I'll just keep it to myself from now on.

[areias]

Went to the clinic today. I am going to redefine Ava under the catergory "buddy sour". When everyone was out in the arena she was fine, when I went to go turn away from the group, about 1/4 of the time she acted up a little, but not bad at all, just resisting. She was actually very good. She got through the ground work fine, we did well for that, and also did fine when we were doing mounted excercises.

I'll give the trainer credit that he is a decent, solid horse trainer. He does need improvement in the clinician department though. He talked a lot and demonstrated a lot, but when he (finally) turned us loose to do our own stuff, he was still working on his green mule and didn't really keep an eye on everybody, just the people that were not getting it at all. I didn't feel that we did a whole lot either, for our money's worth. I got to talk to him about Ava, and he saw (only one of the times) when she acted up. His advice was to keep on with ground work, let her respect you. When you go to get on her, to MAKE her go away from the gate, let her pick a direction at first. If she won't go forward..."cowgirl up", if need be grab the horn and as much leg as needed to make her go and be prepared for a buck or a leap or something, "but at least she won't be rearing and she'll be going forward". I'm not sure about that, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try..but maybe it would? I have a couple other tricks up my sleeve though.

I asked him also about the bitting thing (she won't take a bit) and he tried after the clinic. She pulled all her tricks about putting a bit in and he wasn't able to. He attempted to put a lead rope in and she almost came down on me, she reared and almost toppled over. He did it again and again and she eventually was able to get the lead rope in, so I was happy with that.


I don't know...I don't think I really learned anything to help her other than I what I have already heard. Like I said I have a few more things to try before I'm close to making a decision. The more I look at her the more I think she would be happier as a group lesson horse.

[areias]

Interesting update....

I went and rode her yesterday. It took me a minute to get on, as I was wearing tighter jeans and she's tall ...she was getting annoyed with me, but eventually I hoisted myself up there. We were in the back field where she is the worst. Well...I went once, twice around the field walking and trotting...then went back the other way and did the same..and do you know what she did??



NOTHING. Absolutely positively...nothing. She was an angel. After about 15miutes I cut it short to reward her, and walked her out to the very back of the field to get off her-and she stood stock still while I dismounted. Usually she jigs around and if I want off I have to deal with her moving all over the place. I don't know what the difference was...and if it was just a fluke or if this is it. The only thing I did differently was when I first went to get her, I sat out in the little paddock with her and worked on trying to get the lead in her mouth (which didn't happen, but anyway..) and doing a few of the excercises that we did with the trainer.

So I don't know..we'll see what happens next time. I just can't believe there were no problems whatsoever. Maybe she is starting to respect me more? In preparing to ride her, I put a halter under her hackamore with a long lead rope in case there were problems, and I also dropped the reins and rode her with just a single lead rope! (Pull to the left, and neck rein to the right!) I'm pretty excited about this. I hope we can keep it up.


EDIT: One hour later..I need to ask something. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. I was looking at some the old picture posts of shows and everything, and thinking I would like to get her into some of the gaming events...and then I specifically remember the girl saying that she had some trouble with Ava at night at the shows, being seemingly afraid of the shadows of the barrels. And she has been getting a little head-shy, she struck out at the barn owner when she tried to treat a gash on her face. If you are careless and make a quick movement to her face, or accidently knock something into her muzzle or something, she'll throw her head up and back up quickly. I wonder if she might (might) have a vision problem? And maybe that would be associated with the clingy behavior? Any way to tell from looking at the eye? She's also tripped over silly stuff lately, like an ant pile..I thought it's just because shes due for her foot trim. Maybe she just can't see well??

Hmmm...I think a vet visit is in order!