White Shepherds

[NicoleLJ]

Jackfrost - My breeding program is just that, Mine. My purpose for breeding is not to produce titled dogs, though that would be great if the owners decided to do that(I will even be giving rebates to those that do title their dogs in certian venues). My soul purpose, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, is to produce dogs that have the best structure, temperment, drive, intelligence and so forth to go on to be service dogs for the disable. That is my one and only purpose. So I could care less whether you have a problem with that or not. Sheena and Ryder are both proven dogs in all aspects for what I hope to produce and that is what matters to me.

Ceph - Thank you for your great posts. They are very incitful and I am learning a lot from them. I totally agree with you statement of "well bred WGSDs have slightly more drive and brain." It is so true.

Sorry I haven't contributed more but I have had a busy night and day with Sheena flying to meet Ryder to hopefully produce my first litter. Which we are hoping will have 3 service dog candidates in it. So keep your fingers crossed.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Honey- you have your hands full right now. Some people just like to start something and as someone said to me " thrive on discontent.."

[Sophist]

FWIW, my dad does has a lot of say in selecting dogs for area law enforcement and he is searching more actively for Belgians or white shepherds. Apparently, they're becoming known for having better temperaments and lasting longer health-wise than GSDs. A lot of this is no doubt due to issues in "American" GSD lines, but I found it somewhat interesting. Nicole's dogs appear to be healthy and stable and beautiful and will no doubt produce exemplary service dogs. I think that deserves at least as much respesct as excelling in herding.



Don't mean to hijack, but this thread has me wondering--- is the black GSD registerable? Didn't see it specifically faulted in the AKC guidleines like the whites and some of the dilutes... but for some reason I was thinking it wasn't anyway?

[NicoleLJ]

FWIW, my dad does has a lot of say in selecting dogs for area law enforcement and he is searching more actively for Belgians or white shepherds. Apparently, they're becoming known for having better temperaments and lasting longer health-wise than GSDs. A lot of this is no doubt due to issues in "American" GSD lines, but I found it somewhat interesting. Nicole's dogs appear to be healthy and stable and beautiful and will no doubt produce exemplary service dogs. I think that deserves at least as much respesct as excelling in herding.



Don't mean to hijack, but this thread has me wondering--- is the black GSD registerable? Didn't see it specifically faulted in the AKC guidleines like the whites and some of the dilutes... but for some reason I was thinking it wasn't anyway?

Thank you so much. If your dad ever wants me to put him in touch with some great WS breeders (some who have produced dogs that have gone on to do police work) please let me know.

As for blacks yes they can be registered, so can whites, and tehy can be shown through AKC and the CKC. But from what breeders have told me a black can have a harder time winning in the ring. I am not saying they can't, it is just harder. They told me it was because the black coat not only highlights the good parts but also the bad. It doesn't have any other colors to break up what the eye sees. Do I make sense?
Nicole

[jackfrost]

Honey- you have your hands full right now. Some people just like to start something and as someone said to me " thrive on discontent.."

If anything i have said is untrue, i'll be the first to admit it.

I totally agree with you statement of "well bred WGSDs have slightly more drive and brain." It is so true.

More drivey and more brains than my working dogs??? OK sweety, I can see i'm hurting you and your friend's feelings and you feel a need to try and get back at me. Anyone with any experience at all with working GSD's knows that is nothing but a bold faced lie. But just to let you have your time in the sun, let's say they are. But I have experience with service dogs for the disabled as well, and you know the funny thing is, they are almost exclusively looking for lower drive dogs. you must be working with an anomoly. and back to your comment again, if they're so intelligent and have so much drive, PROVE IT, don't just say it. I go to lots of trials, and see very very very few whites doing anything, let alone winning. If you indeed have a dog with more drive and more brains than a GSD, than surely it will be at the top of the podium, winning at the PSD service trials winning HGH trials sometime, but I know what this will get, more lip service, as I can tell you that in the past 50 years there has been a handful at best to even compete in these trials let alone do well. and that my dear is a fact.

[NicoleLJ]

[QUOTE=jackfrost]winning at the PSD service trials winning HGH trials sometimeQUOTE]

This alone shows me you have no clue what you are talking about. LOL PSD trials. That is so funny. There is no such thing as a Psychiatric Service Dog trial. lol.
Nicole

[Sophist]

Yes, you make sense. Thanks for the info.


JackFrost, don't you think the lack of the white shepherds in these trails could just as easily be due their human counterparts' prejudice against them as it is due to any supposed defects in the dogs?

[jackfrost]

[QUOTE=NicoleLJ]

winning at the PSD service trials winning HGH trials sometimeQUOTE]

This alone shows me you have no clue what you are talking about. LOL PSD trials. That is so funny. There is no such thing as a Psychiatric Service Dog trial. lol.
Nicole

wow, you now so much about working dogs, yet you've never heard of a PSD, Police Service Dog...HMMMMM

[borzoimom]

They dont call them PSD here either... We call them agents. ( worked in customs as a private trainer... ) It is possible she doesnt know. Each area can be different...

[NicoleLJ]

[QUOTE=jackfrost]

wow, you now so much about working dogs, yet you've never heard of a PSD, Police Service Dog...HMMMMM

PSD to me(since I am in service dogs) means Psychiatric service dogs) Service dogs for the disable is what I was talking about when it comes to my breeding program. Why would I need or want to get police dog titles on my breeding dogs when I am breeding for service dogs? Agian you make no sense. Oh well. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Nicole

[Ceph]

I dont know too much before, like I said, but I am in the military, and the kinds of service dogs the military are looking for have to be high drive....you need an animal who not only enjoys the searching but also wont give up. I am medical service corps....dogs that have a high drive and are willing to look for people for as long as possible save lives. I am hoping to train my puppy for rescue missions along that line...I think the military could sorely use a search and rescue dog with each ambulance platoon. but again, high drive = very important...

And on a second note....for christ sakes...they're all the same...the same internal workings, the same structure...some dogs will always be more high drive than others...some will be more lazy...you will see that in both WGSD and GSD. One of my Captains worked with and bred german shepherds, and his direct quote was, 'I've worked with everything but a pure black, and its pretty much ding, they're all the same.' so you can breed high drive and temperment into pretty much any animal...alot of that is dependant on the breeder....it just so happens that most of the people I know who I have mentioned the high drive/intelligence....it may just be that they are all doing something right.

Pretty much this comes down to truth and fact, we all have our own truths - what we believe is real, and then there is the fact....what we know is real....our truth is that the WGSD is awsome, yours is that it is not so much....the actual facts....we dont know for sure because there has never been any hard data or testing in a controlled situation. I actually looked for something in the Virginia Tech Journal Database...the entire database...and I could find nothing. Until there is resaearch done like that, they are all the same I guess. (mmm, that might be a good graduate thesis paper though)