White Shepherds

[wolfsoul]

jackfrost -- what you fail to see is that it doesn't matter what rules and what standards accompany and have EVER accompanied the German shepherd dog. We aren't talking about the German shepherd dog here. This is the American white shepherd -- so by saying that only coloured dogs should be bred, you are excluding an entire breed, in which ONLY WHITE DOGS are allowed. Max Von Stephanitz was the founder of the German shepherd, not the American White Shepherd -- so what he thought does not matter. Perhaps what he thought was one of the determining factors in the breed split. No one is fighting to breed white German shepherds. They are only fighting to breed American white shepherds. They are recognised by UKC and FCI, and are on their way to AKC recognition. They are a breed, not a curse against a breed it no longer has anything to do with.

Don't get me wrong, I hate to see one breed split into another, such as in the Belgian varieties -- but in this situation I'm all for it. These dogs have a better future as far as health goes.

[NicoleLJ]

Wolfsoul thank you for saying that so perfectly. You summed it up just right.
Nicole

[borzoimom]

Wolfsoul thank you for saying that so perfectly. You summed it up just right.
Nicole

AMEN!!! WELL PUT!

[jackfrost]

jackfrost -- what you fail to see is that it doesn't matter what rules and what standards accompany and have EVER accompanied the German shepherd dog. We aren't talking about the German shepherd dog here. This is the American white shepherd -- so by saying that only coloured dogs should be bred, you are excluding an entire breed, in which ONLY WHITE DOGS are allowed. Max Von Stephanitz was the founder of the German shepherd, not the American White Shepherd -- so what he thought does not matter. Perhaps what he thought was one of the determining factors in the breed split. No one is fighting to breed white German shepherds. They are only fighting to breed American white shepherds. They are recognised by UKC and FCI, and are on their way to AKC recognition. They are a breed, not a curse against a breed it no longer has anything to do with.

Don't get me wrong, I hate to see one breed split into another, such as in the Belgian varieties -- but in this situation I'm all for it. These dogs have a better future as far as health goes.

I haven't failed to see that, my point is that White's were never a part of the GSD, they never were accepted, except here in america(funny how we have to split a breed everytime it comes to america but that's another story). Every white breeder claims it has its root's in the German SHepherd a dog known for its courage, it's nerve, its strength, its adaptability, etc. White's were never a part of that history. SO call it like it is, you have the cast offs of a noble breed used to create a white american shepherd. SO yo usee when you are making claims that white's are the same as gsd's just different colors, the rules created by the founder most defineatly have something to do with this, seeing as they've been selected against in the entire world since their beginning.

My breeding program is not in discussion here. And i will not discuss it with someone who has such a narror view of white shepehrds.

If you're going to claim they work just as well and are the same as a GSD, and I see ZERO working titles with any of your dogs, your darn right it's part of the discussion. Just as with anyone breeding any working dog claiming they can work and have this and have that, and yet have never proven their dogs can do any of it. Really big pet peeve of mine. This isn't about white vs others, its about unsubstantiated claims made by breeders, it would be no different looking at an AKC show line website and seeing all these champions that have never had the courage, or nerve tested by anyone.

[borzoimom]

Jackfrost- just because its not an accepted color in our standard, doesnt mean they dont exist. Even in Belgiums you can get both the Terv color and the Belgium color as well. They divided the dog because of color, and not the first to do so. Also a Norfolk and a Norwich can have either in their litters to as well. My point is- color can seperate any breed, and our acceptance in the AKC doesnt make all breeds. Plenty of dogs similar in color but not accepted here yet. Like the Irish Setter in our country is only red- they can be red and white in other countries. The newly coming red and white setter will be named just that eventhough it is stilll a Irish Setter. Just because we don't honor a breed color, doesnt remove the legitamacy.

[borzoimom]

Jackfrost- just because its not an accepted color in our standard, doesnt mean they dont exist. Even in Belgiums you can get both the Terv color and the Belgium color as well. They divided the dog because of color, and not the first to do so. Also a Norfolk and a Norwich can have either in their litters to as well. My point is- color can seperate any breed, and our acceptance in the AKC doesnt make all breeds. Plenty of dogs similar in color but not accepted here yet. Like the Irish Setter in our country is only red- they can be red and white in other countries. The newly coming red and white setter will be named just that eventhough it is stilll a Irish Setter. Just because we don't honor a breed color, doesnt remove the legitamacy.

...

[Ceph]

quite frankly I think that any dog can do anything else a dog could do. It drives me insane that people think that one kind of dog is better than others. A rescue dog given the right training and drive and breed type can do just as well as another dog....sometimes they cant, sometimes they can.

As far as the animals not throwing white animals for 30 years, I find that very hard to believe....and if it was the case I am willing to guess they probably didnt breed the animals throwing whites as much, thus further causing the gene to recess.

I will put down one more example from equine science that might have some part to do with this (I use horses because I know them better, and because I think fundamentally here the animals are similiar)

The American Quarter Horse Association allows only animals of solid color to be registered. They cast out the paints and the appy's even though they mat have been structurally sound...they were culled from the breeding herds. They broke off and formed their own associations (American Paint Horse Association and the FAHR). Today even when a paint or appaloosa is thrown from and QH stud and mare (it happens, though rarely), they are still not allowed to register but can register in the APHA. They are basically the same horse with different colors. Paints excell easly as well as Quarter horses, and today, the foundation breed of quarter horses have far more confirmation problems then their colored friends. Paints came from a generally smaller gene pool, but you wont find a smart QH breeder saying that paints couldnt do all the same things as a QH.

My point I suppose is not to be close minded....I love colored and White dogs all the same....I myself am going white because from everything I have read, and the breeders I have talked to (to include colored breeders) well bred WGSDs have slightly more drive and brain.

[borzoimom]

Ceph- the Russians killed borzois for years that were not mostly white. They wanted a dog that would blend in the snow. The US did the most to bring the self colors back from oblivian..