Do you belive in God? why?

[popcornbird]

2. For popcornbird: You asked some questions about Jesus before, and I would like to return with a question about Abraham, since he is the common ancestor to all 3 'major' religions. I have a very minimal knowledge of Islam, and most of that comes from a National Geographic documentary, as I could never convince my 1 Muslim college friend to discuss religion with me.

Anyway, here's the issue I struggle with in Islam: the Jewish/Old Testament Christian Scripture claims that Abraham's legitimate wife was Sarah, and Hagar was only a servant in the household. Sarah doubted God's word that she would bear a son to Abraham, due to her old age, so encouraged Abraham to father a child by Hagar. This happened (Ishmael), but then Sarah also conceived (Isaac). As the first son to the legitimate wife, Jews and Christians believe that all the inheritance rights went to Isaac. It's my understanding that Islam considered Hagar the legitimate wife and therefore Ishmael was the legitimate son who should have received inheritance of all the promises God made. However, according to Islam, God commanded Abraham to leave Hagar in the wilderness, though he visited her (which is the symbolism represented by Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca). The video claimed that Abraham actually divorced Hagar (which according to Jewish/Christian believers, there was never a marriage, so why divorce?), but Islam also frowns on divorce. Why would God ask someone to break His own rules? Would that not be out of character for God? He makes the rules, but He does not break His own rules...we break the rules all the time, being made of flesh and bone, of course.

I look forward to a deeper understanding about each of your beliefs.

Before I answer your question, I'd like to give you a little something to think about. In Judhism, Christianity, and Islam alike, Prophet Abraham was one of God's greatest Prophets, amongst the most pious of men, a man who completely submitted himself to God and taught the people about faith in One God alone, and the Prophet who was the forefather of all Prophets after him. In Judhism, Christianity, and Islam alike, committing sexual acts with a woman outside of marriage is a major sin and completely forbidden. Does it make any sense that one of God's greatest Prophets would do such a thing? Does it make any sense that a man who is the most pious of pious people would do such a thing? Does it make any sense that God would give Prophet Abraham such praise if he was one to disobey God and go against His commands? I cannot imagine. It just doesn't make any sense.

In Islamic beliefs, Sarah was Prophet Abraham's first wife. They lived in a time where people would worship idols made of clay and stone and wood, and did not believe in the One God. God sent Prophet Abraham to his people to guide them to the 'truth', and lead them to monotheism. The only known believers at the time were Prophet Abraham, Prophet Lot, and Sarah. Sarah and Prophet Abraham married. Later on, Hagar became their house servant. There were no believers at the time. Prophet Abraham's wife, Sarah, was infertile. She thus, encouraged Prophet Abraham to marry Hagar as a 2nd wife and have children with her. With Hagar, he had Ishmael, and in Islam, it was a completely legitimate marriage, and no divorce ever took place. I do want to clear one thing though, before I continue with the story. Divorce is not frowned upon in Islam like it is in Christianity. There has to be a valid reason for divorce, but divorce is allowed in Islam, for the reasons that in certain situations, it is sometimes an absolute necessity.

Now, back to the story...Prophet Abraham was commanded by God to leave his wife, Hagar, and his baby, Ishmael, in the desert of Mecca, Saudi Arabia, for a certain period of time. It was not an abandonment, but God had some wisdom behind this. Mecca was a city God had made holy, and by doing so, it eventually became the center of monotheism of the world. It is a long story, and I can narrate the whole thing if you like, but for now, I will keep it short, and to the point. Prophet Abraham and his son, Ishmael, both built the Ka'aba in Mecca. If you are unaware of what the Ka'aba is, it is the big black cube in the holy city of Mecca where millions of Muslims go every year for pilgrimage. Mecca is the center of God's worship in Islam, for that reason. Much of our faith revolves around belief in Prophet Abraham, the father of all prophets.

One more thing I'd like to mention. In Islamic beliefs, God never sent 'different' religions. He sent the same way of life and the same teachings to all of His prophets at different periods of time. We believe that Prophets Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad all brought the same message from God, and taught the same thing. We also believe that after Moses/Jesus, both Jews and Christians were awaiting another Prophet who would confirm the message brought by their Prophets, and this was something God foretold in their holy books. Prophet Abraham had two sons, Ishmael from Hagar, and Isaac from Sarah. Both Ishmael and Isaac became prophets of God. Prophet Isaac was the forefather of all later Prophts, until Jesus. Ishmael was the forefather of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

When Prophet Muhammad came, many Jews and Christians recognized him as the Prophet they were waiting for, and accepted His message. There were others though, who rejected him, for the reason that he was from the generations of Ishmael, and not Isaac, as they were hoping for. Otherwise, they were positive that he was the prophet they were waiting for, but they chose to reject him for this reason.

I hope this helps in answering your question.

[RICHARD]

A new age is dawning
On fewer than expected
Business is usual
Thats how the headline read
Some shaky modern saviors
Have now been resurrected
In all this excitement
You may have been misled
People want a miracle
They say oh lord, cant you see us?
Were tryin to make a livin down here
And keep the children fed
But, from little dark motel rooms
To six flags over jesus
How are the mighty fallen
So the Bible said
You dont have to pray to a little tin god
Step out of the way for a little tin god
You might fear the reaper, you might fear the rod
But you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
No, you never have to get down on your knees
For a little tin god
The cowboys name was jingo
And he knew that there was trouble
So in a blaze of glory
He rode out of the west
No one was ever certain
What it was that he was sayin
But they loved it when he told them
They were better than the rest
But you dont have to pray for a little tin god
Step out of the way for a little tin god
You might hate to system, hate the job
But you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
No, you never have to get down on your knees
For a little tin god
Throw down a rope from heaven
And lead the flock to water
The man in the middle would have you think
That you have no other choice
But to wander in the wilderness
Of all the upturned faces
If you stop and listen long enough
You will hear your own small voice
But you dont have to pray to a little tin god
Step out of the way for a little tin god
You might fear the reaper, fear the rod
But you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
No, you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
You never have to get down on your knees
For a little tin god

__________________

Man proposes, God disposes.

[ramanth]

Catnapper, your post reminds me so much of why I am a solitary pagan rather than part of any coven or circle. I was interested in being part of a circle for awhile, but I got on their email list and I saw so much bickering and even a bit of bigotry towards members of other religions and I was just aghast. I poked around online and found that it is much the same in a lot of covens or circles, and I decided I didn't want to be a part of that.

There's no pressure when you're being spiritual on your own....the words are yours, the rituals are yours, it comes more from the heart, IMO....

I echo this sentiment. I tried joining a circle and there was so much fighting and strictness. That's the reason I left church in the first place. I feel physically ill sitting in church. It just doesn't feel right. I'm more of a spiritual person myself. I believe there is a higher power or powers and they could be aliens on Mars for all I know.

To me the bible was written by man and My Peanuts stated how I feel a few pages back. We as humans have always had our own agenda. According to the bible, I can stone my children or sell them into slavery. And don't tell me the Old Testament doesn't count. It was written right? So by your claims, it's the word of god.

But overall to me, if following the book and attending church makes you feel good then I'm happy for you. It's all about self esteem and not harming others.

Peas be with you.

[mugsy]

I am Catholic by birth and still feel strongly about my beliefs that are mostly modeled after that belief, but, I am, more and more, coming to believe that the Native Americans have it right.

I do see the Bible as a great piece of history and literature, but, like Kimmy, there are too many discrepancies and double speak to be taken literally. I'm all into interpretation...

And, yes, the Old Testament counts...good heavens....that's what the Jewish faith is based on and they have many very useful beliefs and traditions that hold a lot more common sense (after studying them) that some Christian traditions....

I also find it interesting that many (if not most) of the "religious" holidays coincide with many pagan holidays. And that many Jewish holidays are close to many Christian holidays....

[VTJess03]

Thanks, popcornbird and CathyBogart for your carefully thought out explanations. It definitely helps me to understand better where you're coming from.

[RICHARD]

What religion is this?


If someone says that religion is evli, does that give the followers a right to riot, kill and burn buildings?


Again,

The morons who have hijacked Islam show just how stupid they are.

Prostest the writtenb/spoken word-then ignore the sins you perpetrate against your brothers and sisters.

[Pam]

What religion is this?


If someone says that religion is evli, does that give the followers a right to riot, kill and burn buildings?


Again,

The morons who have hijacked Islam show just how stupid they are.

Prostest the writtenb/spoken word-then ignore the sins you perpetrate against your brothers and sisters.

Couldn't agree with you more Richard. (I assume you are referring to the hullabaloo with the Pope's comments). That reaction to me was quite like what the *holier than thous* do by bombing abortion clinics. It is an excuse to demonstrate their own hate.

[JenBKR]

Couldn't agree with you more Richard. (I assume you are referring to the hullabaloo with the Pope's comments). That reaction to me was quite like what the *holier than thous* do by bombing abortion clinics. It is an excuse to demonstrate their own hate.

Another agreement here.

Also, something I don't understand. They were burning Vatican flags in protest, then threw in some American flags too during the same protest. Why? That didn't make sense to me. The Pope is not an American? Is it just me, or does that make no sense?

[RICHARD]

They were burning Vatican flags in protest, then threw in some American flags too during the same protest.

It was 'buy one , get one free day."

The freudian/islamic/moron/terrorists use the poor, uninformed people to do their dirty work.

Notice that you do not see the people rioting in the 'beter' neighborhoods.

They send their flunkies into the poor neighborhoods to rile up the poor people.

"hey, I got nothing better to do...let's go protest."

-----------------------------------------

I love the two-facedness of the 'peace loving' morons who are making the news circuits.


"The Pope is wrong!"


Wait unti he asks us Catholics to dress up in camo, hide our faces, burn flags and teach the children to mug for the camera while they wave toy guns and yell anti whoever slogans....


----------------------------


The good muslims are suffering because they have put their trust into a bunch of leaders who are bigoted, full of hate and stupid, to boot!

[lizbud]

Wait unti he asks us Catholics to dress up in camo, hide our faces, burn flags and teach the children to mug for the camera while they wave toy guns and yell anti whoever slogans....

You bring up something that's be bugging me. Why do the protesters
and chanters always cover their faces? Why do they hide themselves?


I think the pope could have used a different quote to prove the same
point he was trying to make in his speech. It was a speech at his own
old unniversity, so it was a gathering of scholars, but still. No matter what
he would have said, I don't think would make a difference to the Islamic
radicals because they seem pissed off at the rest of the world right now.

[RICHARD]

always cover their faces? Why do they hide themselves?

What good Muslim family wants to see their kid acting like a moron?

[Vette]

I wish i could say i do...

i used to when i was little.. but have fallen off the path years ago. i havent been to church since i was 13 or so.. and im 25 now.

i just... dont understand what goes on the world and for there to be a God.
my short way of putting it.........

[jujuboy]

You know, going to church isn't the sole reason for "feeling like a believer" it's a relationship with the Father thru Jesus...we are the church, not the building..so, for all those who think that they are "off the track"..."don't speak to God".."stopped going to church" etc...you may feel like you are not having a relationship with God, but the truth is that God is always in tune with you and all your fallabilities/shortcomings/stumblings..and IS LOVING YOU THRU EACH TRIAL AND HARDSHIP YOU/WE ALL GO THRU..HE NEVER ABANDONS US..it is we fallable humans that gossip/put down/reject/hurt/cast aside/cast aspersions...my goodness! the list is endless!!!!...God is faithful and true to His word..His love covers a multitude of sins...His mercies are new every morning...and there is no path or valley you can wander down or even loose your way that will cause God to drop you from HIS firm and faithful grip with each and every life...and it's the Holy Spirit that brings life to every humans hurting heart...and it's hurt that causes us to turn away..In my lifetime, i have found (unfortunately) it is church members who have judged/criticized/gossiped other believers when they may be different or eccentric or walk to the beat of a different drum (if you know what i mean)..fear stops the Love of God teaching/showing/embracing all walks of life...i have found that the narrowmindedness of religious "believers" are striving to "keep their faith" and "do the right things" for God...when was the last time us believers sat down with a drunkard on the streets and just said.."gidday, how are you going?" and just listened instead of being in some mindset of.."oh, this is a lost sinner, i must save him/her it is my mandate from God to do this, coz if i don't God will be angry and this person will go to hell coz i didn't preach hard enough to make this sinner believe"...it is the Holy Spirit that brings the truth of Jesus to life in our hearts..and if He chooses to use you on that day/hour/minute, then so be it...just trust God to do the work and trust that God, the Creator of all, knows how to speak to our very lost/hurting/empty hearts...Jesus is the way the truth and the life..He knows ourselves better than we do..and i truly believe that He does a much better job at tenderly touching our ever searching hearts in a powerful way that you KNOW when you have been shown the GRACE and LOVE of our Father who cares for us deeply and leads each and every one of us in all truth!!!..doesnt matter if other religions say that they are right, or people say that us "christian are twisted"...just leave it to the amazing work of God to reveal Himself to all mankind..revelation comes thru the Holy Spirit..our walk is based on who we are in Jesus Christ and the rest and the peace that comes by knowing this in our hearts....He does the revealing not us..we speak the seeds, another waters but it's God who gives life!!! ( us believers don't always have to be in control...control is based in fear and fear is lead by hurts)...if you don't agree, that's kool..bless you anyway...i trust that my Father (God, is Sovereign..and KNOWS how to and WHEN to touch peoples life)...God Bless you all...and for those who are fed up with church...lay back in the arms of Jesus and surrender all the hurts and fears to HIM..He is the great Shepherd and HE knows how to care for you!!! ...

[cloverfdx]

i just... dont understand what goes on the world and for there to be a God.
my short way of putting it.........

Vette that is my way of thinking aswell. My answer would be no i do not believe.

[Dorothy39]

jujuboy~

Your words comforted me today