I would have loved to see the Presiden'ts face after reading this....

[LilacDragon]

You know what - we are going to have to agree to disagree on the current administration. Apparently you like it - I do not.

[Lady's Human]

As discussed ad nauseum in other political threads, there are things that the present administration has done that I like, and there are things that the current administration has done that I don't like. That statement holds true for the Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush 41 administrations, and holds true for my historical knowledge of all administrations. There are Democrats I would support, there are Republicans I would support. No administration is perfect.

[BOBS DAD]

As discussed ad nauseum in other political threads, there are things that the present administration has done that I like, and there are things that the current administration has done that I don't like. That statement holds true for the Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush 41 administrations, and holds true for my historical knowledge of all administrations. There are Democrats I would support, there are Republicans I would support. No administration is perfect.

LH,

I find this statement of yours to be be disingenious at best and at worst, an insult to an intelligent person's intelligence!!!

I think you ARE A "HUGE" FAN of this President, and like many others who I am friends with (who are similarly inclined) - you most likely find it increasingly more difficult to defend him and his dreaded performance in your own mind, but cannot openly admit it!

I believe this because I feel that you find a caveat in everything he does and that your defense of this President and his administration always has a ring of "quit picking on them". Yet I suspect that when the media and the right wing commentators went after President Clinton for 8 years, you were all for it! Interestingly, when the economy was strong, the federal deficit beginning to decline, interest rates low and people were making a fortune in the stock market, pundits went after "that" President on a "Character" level. Yes... they attacked him "below the belt" so to speak.

But although I voted for him, and believe that as an administrator and leader of the country, he did a good job (and all in all - was "good" President), it was fair game to expose him for the Cad that he was. Sorry... but he exposed a weakness and a personal shortcoming with a lack of personal control regarding his sexual urges - and he paid the price for it.

I could not and would not defend him on this front and to this day I think less of him and feel sorry for him that his record, as a President, was tarnished in this way.

But "this President"!!!??? I also voted for him - once. But I am convinced by his performance that I made a mistake. I took his good ol' boy country charm for a real down to earth-i-ness - and not his being just "plain dumb". I think he has made a mess of things and I feel sorry for all Americans who will now pay the price for his ineptness and global blunders for generations.

History will undoubtedly view him as one of, if not "the worst" of all American Presidents!

[Lady's Human]

Bob's dad

I think you ARE A "HUGE" FAN of this President, and like many others who I am friends with (who are similarly inclined) - you most likely find it increasingly more difficult to defend him and his dreaded performance in your own mind, but cannot openly admit it!

You're free to think whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true.

[mugsy]

Is there a particular reason why this has become so venomous? Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and should be respected for it, whether you agree with it or not. You know what they say about opinions.

As for the worst president of all time...I believe the history books will probably continue to rate Warren G. Harding as the worst in history...he was REALLY bad! He made Clinton look like a saint and Bush Jr. look like a genius! There are many worse, but, I'm certain there are many better. I do not defend the berating of any president the way the last 2 have been. The position itself demands at least the slightest bit of respect. I personally think Bush is a blooming idiot, but, then I wasn't all too thrilled with Clinton's performance either.

And like LH, I vote the person not the party. I lived with a dyed in the wool Democrat who voted straight ticket without regard of who was running for 37 years of my life and I swore I would never do that...and I haven't. I have never voted a straight ticket...ever...and I have voted since 1980.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I voted for Clinton. I voted for Gore. I voted for Bush jr.
I feel my vote for Clinton was my worse mistake!!!

Now, having said that: I do believe Bush is trying to do what HE feels is best for our country to keep us safe. He is in a situation where no matter what he does is going to be wrong for someone.

Lord help us when the next 9/11 happens, and as much as we don't want to think it, it will happen.

How do I know? Well for one reason, there are at this time 50 countries that hate the USA meeting in Cuba with another nation that hates us. A country only 90 miles from our coast. Believe me, they aren't planning a surprise tea party for us.

All parties need to stop bickering and start fighting to keep our country safe and build up a stronger national defense system.

Maybe we should look to the welfare of our own country before we try to help the rest of the world because like it or not, we aren't the mother of the world.

On 9/11 our world changed forever. We can't always be politically correct any more. We need leaders who are not afraid to stand up for our country.
By the way, when did Congress stop working FOR the good of our country and start working FOR their own interests? They should be ashamed of themselves. Their money won't do them a bit of good when we get over taken by another country, and don't for one second believe it can't happen. It's being planned by those who hate us even now.

Just my own opinions. Feel free to disagree, which I'm sure lots of you will, but it won't change my mind a bit.

[LilacDragon]

I find it interesting that some seem to think that a President who's only major problem was he couldn't keep his pants on - he did manage to balance the budget and put us in the black for the first time that I can remember - is some paragon of ineptitude while praising the current administration.

And yet a President who lied to get us into a war, sent troops to war with inferior equipment, uses religion as a reason to sign laws, has put us so far into debt that I doubt my great grandchildren will find relief, and has all but handed our country over to big business is made out to be such a great guy.

I have never voted for a Bush in my life and if Jeb gets elected President then I will seriously consider becoming a Canadian citizen.

And yes, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I have never voted for a Bush in my life and if Jeb gets elected President then I will seriously consider becoming a Canadian citizen.

And yes, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinions.

By the way, lots of people threatened to leave if Bush were elected. He was and they didn't. I wouldn't want you to go either.

[BOBS DAD]

I voted for Clinton. I voted for Gore. I voted for Bush jr.
I feel my vote for Clinton was my worse mistake!!!

Now, having said that: I do believe Bush is trying to do what HE feels is best for our country to keep us safe. He is in a situation where no matter what he does is going to be wrong for someone.

Lord help us when the next 9/11 happens, and as much as we don't want to think it, it will happen.

How do I know? Well for one reason, there are at this time 50 countries that hate the USA meeting in Cuba with another nation that hates us. A country only 90 miles from our coast. Believe me, they aren't planning a surprise tea party for us.

I am not sure I understand your reasoning Mom, but I am always willing to listen and consider another point of view.

Could you elaborate on why Clinton was by far your worst choice - minus the obvious tag of philanderer and womanizing? I did quite well under the Clinton administration - personally and with my business. My business took a nose dive under GWB from which we are still trying to recover (I can't really say that GW had any effect on that fact or the overall economy in Pgh - it could have very well merely been a timing/cyclic thing.) People say taxes are a big voters issue - yet, many of them, in fact - let me be frank, pretty much all of them can not "even tell me what they pay in taxes". DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!! It just comes out in their paychecks. Staunch Reublicans tell that they pay less under Republican Administrations and more under Democrats. Dems tell me they pay less under Democrats (because they are supposedly for the working man) and penalized more in the form of a higher pay/tax ratio under the Republicans. Sounds all pretty stereotypical doesn't it?

Fact is the truth lies somewhere in a clouded space in between. If you make less than 100,000.00 a year - then your tax base pretty much hasn't changed much - if at all - in the last 2 decades (that is the percentage of your annual gross paid to Federal income tax ). If you don't believe that, go back and check your income tax returns. It is very simple... just look at what you declared in earnings and see what you paid in FEDERAL income tax. Divide the larger number by the smaller and check it against who was in office. It may be a real eye opener for you.

Your savings as an under 100,000 (even as high as 150,000.00) taxpayer will come in the form of write offs and deductions. One of the biggest losses in deductions to the average working family came under the Reagan administration. It was in the form of the progressive scaling back of declarable personal interest charges (YES... this is your car, your credit cards and any other "personal" loans you may have) and it's eventual elimation. This was done in 4 years - 80%, 60, 40, 20 and GOODBYE. Kinda sneaky, cause most never saw it coming and since most people don't even understand their own tax return, they couldn't figure out why they were declaring more money earned while they did not get a raise and they were spending more on credit (credit cards).

But please check your returns. See if you pay any more or less under Clinton or Bush (by percentage of declared earnings). See if Bush "really" saved you any money or if Clinton was "really" robbing your wallet... and yes, don't forget to add that 300-500.00 dollars that you probably got back last year in the form of a tax break.

You say Clinton was your worst choice. I too voted for him. I say Bush - I also voted for him once. To me, their is no comparison. When you mention those those 50 or so countries who "hate us", why do you think they hate us??? Do you think Bush has done anything to improve those relations or exasperate them? Has he practiced any real diplomacy with any of our longtime allies (excluding England), or has he shown a Cowboylike mentality that suggested to the rest of the world - "WE DON'T NEED YOU"?

Being a strong defender of our country and standing up for our way of life doesn't mean that we need to become a rogue nation bent on forging democratic states in tribal countries. If you don't think that "whoever was in office" at the time of 911 would not have acted as swiftly and aggressively as Bush did to defend and retaliate against our aggressors, then you just aren't thinking it through. America and Americans would have stood for nothing less!!!!!!!!!! The standing President had a open invitation to attack and punish whomever was responsible and "all Americans" were standing right behind him - it was an easy if not solemn decision.

I guess I could ramble on endlessly, but I guess that my final point for now is please don't cast your vote in November with the notion that only one party or one political strategy has a lockhold on national defense - or the best way to implement it.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Sorry but I do base my opinion on Clinton mainly on his womanizing while in office. If you can't trust a man to be true to his wife, you sure can't trust him to be true to his country, in my opinion, that is. Not being a man, I man have a slanted point of view on this.

As for taxes and the rest; I am so far below the poverty level I can't even see the top. Even when working 50 to 60 hours a week at an insurance co that was the best paying place to work in our town. My part of Kansas is not on the high pay end of the pay scale unless you are a CEO. Since being disabled, well, lets just say, it's not a walk in the park or happy sunsets!!! If it wasn't for my brother, I'd be homeless. I wouldn't even have a computer or Internet access.

My savings and retirement all vanished while fighting the government for my disability which I was entitled to after working for over 25 years. I started working when I was 16. I was disabled in 1995.

If you are lucky enough to have a savings and a comfortable income, I'm happy for you. My advise is to buy a home of your own because you sure won't be able to later in life if you have no nest egg, and save every cent you can. If you get to where you have to depend on Social security, you will have a very rough time of it. And it won't improve with the dinky little raises the government give you each year while giving themselfs fat $5000 or more a year raises. (and don't think they don't)

As to the other countries; we couldn't make some of them like us no matter what we do. Some of them just hate democracy. It's past that, they are after us and we need to protect our country. We can't wait until one of them launces a nuke that hits our country to be ready for it.

[RICHARD]

LH,

I find this statement of yours to be be disingenious at best and at worst, an insult to an intelligent person's intelligence!!!

I guess some of us wont have to worry...

[BOBS DAD]

I guess some of us wont have to worry...

Just getting caught up... been away for a few days. I like that quip... I am thinking that some might suggest I too don't need to be overly concerned!!!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Yep, we can all feel better with the president of Iran telling the UN that Bush is the Devil. Bush in HIS speech mentioned how the US looks forward to being friends with Iran some day!

Yep, I sure feel safer now!!!

[lizbud]

Yep, we can all feel better with the president of Iran telling the UN that Bush is the Devil. Bush in HIS speech mentioned how the US looks forward to being friends with Iran some day!

Yep, I sure feel safer now!!!

It was the President of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez ,that said that.