Kirk's Hips =( **8/26 GOOD update!**"

[shais_mom]

I've been replying to you in LJ - just posting here to show my support and for any updates!

[lv4dogs]

I am so sorry, that is devestating news.

Don't let your co-workers bother you. I know it's hard but remember you are an excellent dog owner and you know that, that is all that matters hon.

If you are not at all comfortable talking to your breeder perhaps a letter or email would be better? I have to say, this post is very well written. A phone call is more personal, and you will be able to resolve more that way, and faster too. Be honest with her, tell her what you told us, that you are not sure where to start. After that maybe say something along the lines like, Kirk is an excellent dog, he's really working out for us (IF he is & if you are willing to keep him despite this disease) but we've been noticing some problems.. (explain the symptoms you've been seeing) a trip to the vet confirmed what I have thought.... (give the details of the exam, x-rays, etc..) he has severe
HD.

Yous will be in my thoughts. {{{hugs}}} Good luck sweetie.

[Kater]

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful and helpful replies. I am going to try to respond to some of your great ideas and questions.

Queen of Poop - He is quite a chewer! The slow & steady type. I am stocked up on a rawhide type chew which is twisted around a chicken jerky core - he loves them! I also throw in bully sticks now and then. However, he is teething right now. I guess most of the baby teeth are gone, but he has a lot of teeth still growing in, so he has eased up on the chewies and been more interested in frozen kongs. Maybe they feel better on a sore mouth, like a teething ring? I should probably look for some more chewie types to keep him interested, but so many of them are made of such crappy by-product ingredients.
I found this site of recoup activity suggestions: http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~may/activ and will be on the lookout for more ideas/sites.

My Peanuts - I am trying to see that silver lining. The fact that a TPO might be an option should be regarded as a blessing in disguise. Now I just have to hope that he has adequate depth of the hip sockets to make this a viable option. Please pray for him, PTers! I did see the x-rays, but it hard for me to compare them based only on my memory and taking into account my lack of experience with such diagnostics. Yes, it was shallow, but how shallow is too shallow and how does it compare with whatever rads I find online.... These are not questions I can answer, so I am trying to be patient and wait to hear what the surgeon tells Dr. A.

Giselle – I work at a vet clinic, so these co-workers are vet techs (I don't think that was clear). I am probably being too sensitive about their comments, but I cannot believe how much flak I am getting compared to how little support they are offering. I guess they treat clients better than they a friend and co-worker. I was hoping for at least the same courtesy. *sigh*
Thank you for your tips regarding communication with the breeder. I did call her tonight and will summarize that at the end of the post. Hopefully that will address your questions.

Bckrazy - Thanks for bringing up rehab. I meant to address that in my first post, but I did not want to get completely ahead of myself since I have yet to even speak with the surgeon. Anyway, assuming we go ahead with the surgery, I definitely want to do everything I can to make his recovery as productive as possible in terms of healing and maintaining muscle, range of motion, etc. We are exercising him fairly cautiously right now, and I have watched his muscles visibly atrophy in his hind legs over the last month. I hate to see it happen, but he is in (increasing) pain and we cannot risk popping his hip(s) out. I would loooooooove to do acupuncture on him ASAP post-op, but he may not have the personality for it. Some dogs tolerate it, and some don't. Even though I try to do a hands-on physical with him every night at home, he is still a bit of a terror at the vet's when we do the physical exam- even when Dr. A has me do it!! If he can't handle that, then I don't think he'll likely tolerate take the needles. It is a rare young dog that tolerates acupuncture, to be honest. (For those who don't know or remember – I work part-time (tech/kennels) in a 3-doctor vet clinic. I primarily work with a vet who practices both Eastern and Western medicine - specifically she is an acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist.) There are other options of course, like hydrotherapy, massage, acupressure, t-touch, etc. I still have lots of research to do regarding post-op care & physical therapy. Thankfully I have an amazing resource in Dr. A!

I just came across some more things to add to my worry list. Apparently the sciatic nerve can be nicked during the plate drilling process, and this can result in paralysis of the leg. Additionally a double TPO causes a narrowing of the pelvis, which can result in difficulties with elimination and gas. The hardware can also loosen, mainly the screws. However, after the bone has completely healed this rarely happens. It is probably good that I am finding out about these possible risks now. This way I can ask the surgeon how often she has encountered such results.

The phone call. Well, Kirk's breeder was very surprised and honestly saddened and concerned by the news. She confirmed that the Dad was OFA tested and Speedy's (bitch) grandmother was too, since she bred her. Well, that is not exactly what she told me. She said the parents were tested. They were tested once (as far as I could tell) and were rated "good". I did not ever see the papers. This probably looks really manipulative, but there is also a lot of context here.

Tangent....

Hawaii is a small place, and ethical breeder is a highly relative term. There is one BC breeder who I would consider ethical by ANY standards, not just Hawaii standards, but she is not breeding now or anytime in the near future as far as I can tell. She is a friend and we asked her what she thought of this breeder, and she didn’t have anything negative to say. Anyway, this is not a decision I need to defend at this point. If you read my introductory thread you will see that getting this dog was my father's choice and he did it his way. I am not going to beat myself up over this, but I will learn from it and I am starting to realize that maybe this is just fate at work anyway. We honestly considered getting a dog from NZ (my parents visited breeders when they were over there), but the cost of the shipping arrangements and stress on the animal (especially a young one) seem unwarranted. Along the same lines we considered getting a dog from a California or west coast rescue since breed rescue hardly exists here. Same issues.

There were no reported hip problems in Speedy's first litter, nor has she heard anything from owners of Kirk's littermates. However, she is only able to directly contact two of the other littermate owners. I guess they all have her contact information, but she did not insist on getting theirs. She assured me that she would contact them ASAP, and also would get back to me if she hears about any HD or other problems with the littermates. She was just as surprised as you and I that such a bad case of HD could come out of the pairing. She said she would not breed to Kirk's Dad again, but didn't explicitly say she would never breed Speedy again.

She offered to take him back , refund half or all of the purchasing cost, and even offered to help pay for the surgery. I told her that I was not seeking compensation, simply wanting to update her and inform her. Well, she insisted that I get back to her about the cost of the surgeries and his progress. Perhaps I will let her refund some of his purchase price, in light of the fact that the bill for the surgeries might be much more than I am anticipating. She reiterated her thanks for letting her know and continued to apologize to the moment before we hung up.

I don't really know what else to say about the phone call. I think I fulfilled my reasons for calling. I am…. exhausted. Emotionally drained. Too exhausted to completely sort out my feelings and logic in regards to all of this.

Kate

P.S. Pics soon! I don't think I've taken any in over a month!

[KYS]

I am very sorry to hear about Kirks hips.
I am glad you let the breeder know.
In all fairness to you, the surgery probably will not be cheap.
In my humble opinion I think the breeder should at least
refund the full purchase price of Kirk or pay for part of
his surgery. (and keeping Kirk of course)

Hugs and don't pay attention to your co-workers.

[lizbud]

Kate,

It is so heartbreaking to hear sad news about Kirk. I am so sorry that
you both have to deal with this at all.My RB Buddy had very bad hips as well,
and he was not a purebred dog.When I first discovered his problems as a pup
of just a few months old, I felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach.

This is so terribly sad for the animal that has to suffer so much because of
some careless people.So unfair to see a active dog who can never understand why they can't run & play like any other dog. Why they have so
much pain doing normal dog things. I hope & pray that Kirk can be helped
with surgery.He might never be the althlete you hoped for, but I hope it is
possible to help him have a fairly normal life.I wish you both the very best
outcome possible. (((HUGS))) Liz.

[Giselle]

That was a very comforting response from your breeder, I must admit! I'm glad you informed her and I hope things improve for you and Kirk. Get well, Kirk!!! We're all rooting for you.

[Kater]

Yesterday I got a letter from the breeder. She relayed that the owners of two of his littermates reported no signs of any problems. One of Kirk's littermates is also in our puppy class, so we have let them know as well.

She also included a check...she refunded his purchase price to the dollar. It will really help with the cost of surgery. Looking at the date on the check I see she wrote it the same day I called her to let her know about his hips. She offered a full or partial refund over the phone, and I was thinking of asking the next time I called her for at least the partial refund, but I'm glad she made the decision for me. I will have to think of something really nice to do for her. I should also e-mail her some of his recent pics!

I will call her tonight to thank her and let her know about his upcoming neuter.

[BC_MoM]

That's nice of her to fully refund you.

I'm wishing Kirk and you the best!

[cyber-sibes]

Glad to hear his first surgery went well, we will keep you in our prayers, all paws crossed that recovery & 2nd surgery will go smoothly. That's an awful lot to go through, and it is too bad your co-workers aren't more sympathetic. But be assured that here on PT, you've got tons of support! ** Ear ruffles **to Kirk.

[wolf_Q]

I'm glad that Kirk made it through the surgery ok. I hope he recovers well!!

[borzoimom]

He is in my prayers. Dont worry= after recovery, it is better afterwards.

[Queen of Poop]

Prayers for Kirk, and his mommie. I hope the second one goes as well as the first one did.

[gardengirl]

Your breeder sounds like a good person. You are lucky in that respect. I wouldn't be so quick to turn down refunds or help with the surgeries. You will be inundated with bills from that and from rehabilitation costs.

My 6 yo collie has bilateral elbow dysplasia. He was diagnosed at 18 mos., too late for surgery because of arthritis that had already set in. Until a year ago, he did pretty well, although had to take some antiinflammatories at times. He always walks funny and limps quite a bit. Six months ago we began swimming and water therapy (treadmill under water). Also, physical therapy with exercises. He's been getting adequan shots also. The expense is enormous just from this and no surgery. But he is really improving and much stronger than he was. His balance is much better and his endurance greatly increased. He takes Previcox much more often now, but I'm happy with the results from the therapy. Definitely try Kirk with these things so his muscles don't atrophy like Bailey's did. We started late to remedy the situation.

It's devastating to have our disabled dogs. My heart breaks when I watch him around other dogs and see what he cannot do. But he's a great dog and has excelled in other areas like pet therapy. He worked with kids who had cancer for 4 years.

My breeder wasn't so nice. She never offered money, and she lied about the sibling not having these issues. In fact a litter brother was even worse off. She will not respond to my emails or calls. I have given up on her. I don't need her anymore. Unfortunately I had done research and was referred to her by reputable breeders. I paid a lot of money for Bailey and even with the problems, I'm so happy to have him.

Here's a video of my other collie in the water tank helping his back arthritis:

Water Therapy

Good luck with Kirk. He is very lucky to have you as his mom to take such good care of him.

[Kater]

My boy is doing well. He has not tweaked the knee ....or given me some form of a heart attack in quite some time!! We are having some diarrhea issues....but on the up side, he has had a great appetite lately. I might actually get him up to 39-40 lbs. yet! We're working on those muscles!!

Here are some pics I took today...

Left side...this is the more atrophied side. He most recently had surgery on this side and this knee has the partially torn ligament. He is using it really well and his muscles continue to develop well on this side.


Right side....his strong side. You can see the size difference by comparing the two pictures, but the difference is somewhat obscured by his fur. Obviously the left side has shorter hair as it was shaved more recently. He still has uneven breeches!




Smiley boy



gardengirl - Thank you for sharing your story, advice and kind words. I am so sorry to hear about your sweet Bailey (and his despicable breeder ).
Adequan is very expensive, but I know it helps Kirk tremendously. I give weekly injections at home, and probably will continue to do so for life. If you can stomach giving the injections yourself, then your clinic might allow you to buy the bottle and do it at home (at a tremendous cost savings).
Wishing you and Bailey all the best!!