Mom is refusing to belive me about raw.

[Lady's Human]

I've never seen anyone say dog food is bad

followed by....

I for one am quite sick of false information being spread about raw and so-called "high quality" dog foods. There is not a bowl dog food out there that will reach the nutritional value of a bowl of raw food - wether your dog enjoys it or not.

Nuff said.

or

For one, Iams is not a high quality dog food. Have you seen the crap in it?

Or from a thread asking about a good kibble....

Why not feed her raw , its like people food and better for her.

Raw is like a religion. Not suported by science, but it's impossible to convince the true believers that there's another way.

[CagneyDog]

I for one am quite sick of false information being spread about raw and so-called "high quality" dog foods. There is not a bowl dog food out there that will reach the nutritional value of a bowl of raw food - wether your dog enjoys it or not

Perhaps you just don't understand raw vs. kibble. She did not say that Kibble was bad, she said that it would not reach the nutritional value of raw. This is a fact.

For one, Iams is not a high quality dog food. Have you seen the crap in it?

This is also a fact. Iams is not good dog food. She never said, all dog foods are crap?

I'm a little confused and I think you're reading in to this too much.

Not suported by science, but it's impossible to convince the true believers that there's another way.

The funny thing is that most of the true believers started, switched, and saw the great changes.

[Kfamr]

You aren't proving anything here. Not one time have I said kibble is bad, neither were any of those statement implying that. Maybe you comprehend them different than intended.

Yes, Iams is not a quality kibble. Will a dog live off of it? Of course! And I'll live off of McDonalds.

You keep saying raw is a religion, therefor dry dog kibble is a religion too. I do not need anyone's scientific opinion to see the improvement in my animal's health.

[Lady's Human]

As to raw or kibble being a religion......

Show me a double blind study of raw that doesn't have holes in it big enough to drive a truck through, and I'll believe the benefits. Anything short of that is anecdotal.

[.sarah]

I think the best "study" of how great raw is, is the fact that dogs and wolves have been living on it for millions of years. Kibble has been around for, what, 60 years? And how many diseases are we seeing frequently in pets these days?

[CathyBogart]

As to raw or kibble being a religion......

Show me a double blind study of raw that doesn't have holes in it big enough to drive a truck through, and I'll believe the benefits. Anything short of that is anecdotal.

Yes, but the anecdotal evidence in Raw's favor is OVERWHELMING.

[Glacier]

Yes, but the anecdotal evidence in Raw's favor is OVERWHELMING.

And if you look for it, you'll find just as much negative anecdotal evidence about raw--about any particular brand of kibble, any drug, any supplement. Anecdotal evidence always goes both ways.

[Kfamr]

I'm sorry, I do believe I have every right to include my positive raw feeding, just like you have ever right to go against it. I'm not telling you not to express anything.

[wolf_Q]

I'm tired of the dog food debate. I think as long as you do some research and feed what you feel is best for what you can afford, then you are doing the best for your dog. Questions and information are great, it’s good to look into what is best for your dog......arguing, is not.

People may not have come out and said it exact, but I, personally, have gotten the impression many times that certain members here do look down upon you if you do not feed raw. It seems that at the moment raw is "in" and if you're not in the raw group then you're not taking as good of care of your dog.

Please come meet my mostly kibble (high quality) fed dog with a nice thick soft coat, perfectly clean teeth (brushing), healthy weight and tell me he isn't in as good of shape as a raw fed dog.

I am not against any dog food diet--raw, homecooked, good kibble with the exception of very low quality kibble filled with just by-products/grains. If your dog is healthy and happy then you are doing great!

Ok, off my soap box now.

[binka_nugget]

Thanks Amy, that was exactly what I was thinking. I'm SOOO incredibly tired of the constant raw vs kibble debate.

Plain and simple, feed something that your dog does well on, and something you're comfortable feeding.. whether it's kibble, or homecooked, or raw.

I am a raw feeder, and I am a believer in the diet. I absolutely do not recommend that anyone feed raw if they aren't comfortable with it. No one's making you believe in it. It's your choice, your decision. Don't like the idea? Fine. Leave it be and stop bickering.

Personal experiences and scientific facts are great. But really, how many times can we go back and forth from "raw bad, raw good" argument?

[Lady's Human]

Actually, my point here isn't that raw is good, bad or otherwise. Feed whatever you want as long as the dog is healthy. My point is merely a request to stop using falsehoods (example:dogs don't get salmonella) as support for your statements for or against raw, and stop knocking down kibble as a good food. If you did a search in here for AAFCO, you would find statements left and right that XYZ ingredient is bad, therefore kibble is bad, with little to no scientific evidence backing up the statements.

Making a statement like "My dog does better on raw" is fine. Making a statement like " Raw is better than kibble" with nothing other than anecdotal evidence is absurd.

[CagneyDog]

Making a statement like "My dog does better on raw" is fine. Making a statement like " Raw is better than kibble" with nothing other than anecdotal evidence is absurd.

We've provided evidence, you shot it all down.

[Kfamr]

As I said, I do not base it on "studies", I base it on my own experience. The improvement in my three very healthy animals is enough for me.

Their teeth: On kibble, yellow and built up. Raw bones are cleaning them right up.

Their stools: A good consistency, small

Their coats: I have not had to bathe them in weeks. Nala's has especially improved. On Nutro kibble she used to get a nasty film on her coat. They do not smell whatsoever, not even when they come in from outside.

Their overall energy: My almost 9 year old is a lot more active. He doesn't tire as easily.


There's my studies for you, and if you don't believe in them, that's your issue.

[Lady's Human]

A valid study would contain at least three groups, preferably large groups,with members of each study group with similar if not identical genetic lines to eliminate health problems of genetic origin. One group fed strictly raw, one fed kibble, one fed a mixed diet. The only variable for the study to be valid can be the diet. No environmental variables, all exercised the same, etc.

Until that happens, please leave the pseudo scientific pap out of the discussion, and admit that anecdotal evidence (as in my dog is .........) is just that. Anecdotal evidence.