Mom is refusing to belive me about raw.

[I_luv_rusty]

Yes, and as long as you wash your hands after serving and touching the chicken, it's fine. Salmonella does NOT affect dogs.

I though that too!

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yeah, but there's more chance of your dog getting salmonella from dog food than from Raw chicken.

[Lady's Human]

From a Canadian veterinary study of commercial raw diets:


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1140397

Isolation of Salmonella spp. from 20% of raw diets was of concern, but it was not surprising, based on earlier reports. Salmonella sp. is a recognized pathogen of a variety of species, and salmonellosis has been reported in dogs and cats fed raw food contaminated with Salmonella spp.

[k9krazee]

My dogs all were fed Iams up until about 6 month ago and I convinced my mom (who was a huge Iams fan) to switch to Nutro. Eventually, when I get my own place, or move back with my parents and I'm financially stable enough I will feed Raw. My parents just aren't comfortable with it, and if I was still living at home I would make the switch in a heartbeat but sadly can't at this time.

But from Iams to Nutro I did notice a change in the dawgs. Micki had horrible allergy outbreaks all the time and his armpits would become inflamed and red along with the inside of his back legs. After the switch it gradually all went away, I was impressed! No amount of any other medications would clear it up.

[areias]

Nutro is good? Is it better than Purina 1? I have seen it in Wal-Mart, Which is handy. I would have to go out of the way for Canidae, but I will if it's a better food. Is Nutro better than Canidae?

Blehh, I really really don't like Purina One. I'm going to switch to Eagle Pack or Solid Gold, I think, now that I only have one dog.

As for raw, I never really post about it, for fear of debate..not that I don't believe in it, but I don't feel that it is necessary, and that is my personal opinion. Although I'm sure your moms opinions on raw are not well founded, maybe you can try educating some more. Get your vet's opinion on it around her, (as long as he isn't paid by iams to promote it).

[Sevaede]

I would say try digging up some of the old raw threads, maybe join a raw yahoo group, dig around on the net, and call your vet (or others). Collect all your information together and present it to her.

Nutro IS at all of my local Wal Marts. I have seen it there every time I have gone to Wal Mart for the past few months as that is the very first place I go. They have the dry kibble and wet food.

[bckrazy]

Nutro IS at all of my local Wal Marts.

That is bizarre! I wish every W*M carried better foods such as Nutro. =/ Mine most definitely does not.

About Raw, I honestly feel you need to do a lot of research. Like, less than a week ago, you were saying you would never feed RMB's right? Join the Raw fed Yahoo group, Rawdogs on Livejournal, and look at the Lonsdale free downloads for the books RMB's Promote Health and Work Wonders... to start. If you show your Mom that you are doing loads of research, and write down big pointers for her, that should help. You should definitely improve her diet as best you can until you're ready for Raw as well as your family. Nutro NC would be a big improvement, but even better would be a premium kibble that is available at feed or specialty stores (Solid Gold, Canidae, Chicken Soup, Innova, California Natural, Eagle Pack, to name a few).

[wolfsoul]

From a Canadian veterinary study of commercial raw diets:


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1140397

Isolation of Salmonella spp. from 20% of raw diets was of concern, but it was not surprising, based on earlier reports. Salmonella sp. is a recognized pathogen of a variety of species, and salmonellosis has been reported in dogs and cats fed raw food contaminated with Salmonella spp.

The study does not go into detail about whether or not the diet was fed properly. Yes, dogs are able to become sick from salmonella -- however, the wide variety of salmonellosis cases are due to rawhide. My vet has had a good amount of salmonella cases over the years, even before she became raw-focused, and it has all led back to rawhide. Due to it being difficult to digest, holding the bacteria back in the system and allowing it time to affect the dog. The same goes for raw meat -- if the raw meat is fed with grains or cooked food, it may be held back too long. The study you quoted does not go into detail about each of the situations involved, if the diet was fed properly, if there may have been other factors or contributing factors, etc. It is my opinion that dogs have a much higher chance of contracting salmonellosis from kibble or cooked food -- Kibble stored unproperly is more likely to absorb moisture and attract airborne salmonella -- Kibble causes plaque which stays in the mouth and on the teeth of the dog -- But in general, it's not something you need to worry about when feeding any diet. Dogs have strong disgestive systems that are identical to that of a wolf. Wolves also have less contributing factors that could lead to salmonella posioning.

No, a dog will not get salmonella poisoning from raw meat alone.

[Lady's Human]

The study was about salmonella contamination in food sources. Salmonella is not an airborne bacteria, it is spread through contact or ingestion. A high amount of salmonella bacteria in a food source can cause salmonella poisoning in ANY animal, depending on the strain of the bacteria.

[GreyhoundGirl]

I thought dogs didn't get salmonella from raw chicken, doesn't it have something to do with their strong immune systems? I though I read that somewere.

It seems like Jenny is changing foods often, she is just getting used to purina 1, and than my mom goes out and buys a bag of Iams. I will be sure to get Nutro next time, it sounds good. Right now I have to finish the purina than start and finish the new Iams. Hopefully my mom will let her stick to nutro, instead of " accidentally" going out and buying more Iams.

[BOBS DAD]

I'm trying to get my mother to belive me about the gains of feeding raw. I have tried to get her to belive you countless people out there... Do you guys know any good dry food?

Please help.

Is your girl a Greyhound??? I've seen your siggy countless times but never made the connection. She looks unusual in her markings.

Is your dog happy and generally healthy - as far as you and her vet can tell???

Then I would not really worry about the food she is eating. It seems to be nutritious and keeping her well. I know there are a lot of RAW Advocates here on site, but I am not sure that it has been generally "concluded" that nothing else works!

It reminds me of Human diet debates in a way. Some people are Vegetarians "and say that everything else is poisoning your system and BAD for you". Yet many meat eaters live into their 90's - just like Vegetarians. Some people eat only poultry and NO RED MEAT. Now poultry is gonna give you the Bird Flu. I say follow your best instincts and watch your dog's health... just as you would your own. If you see any signs of declining health, then consider changing her diet - adding to or taking away things.

[Vela]

In my opinion, I think everyone should research what goes into the food they feed their dogs, which is really easy to do nowdays with the internet, find out if you feel comfortable feeding that. If not try to find the best food YOU can afford, kibble or raw, etc., that your dog does well on, and use that. I personally have swtiched over to mostly raw, with occasional Innova Evo or Evo RM (red meat) for breakfast sometimes. Dinner is always raw, and often breakfast as well. I can tell you that my nearly crippled dog with horrid breath and overweight (couldn't exercise due to pain in back hips and legs), is now running, playing, and jumping. She is on no pain medications, no extra joint supplements and has lost quite a bit of weight. I can't imagine feeding anything else now, but that's what works for me and my dogs, everyone has to decide what works for them and their dogs best.

I will say, don't knock raw until you've tried it, and don't make snap judgements that it's unhealthy unless you have actually tried it. If it was so uhealthy my dogs wouldn't be doing so much better, and they were on Canidae and Chicken Soup dog foods before the switch, so they weren't eating garbage food before either.

[wolfsoul]

The study was about salmonella contamination in food sources. Salmonella is not an airborne bacteria, it is spread through contact or ingestion. A high amount of salmonella bacteria in a food source can cause salmonella poisoning in ANY animal, depending on the strain of the bacteria.

Salmonella can be airborne -- My grandmother has lung disease from inhaling airborne salmonella. It is mostly found in hatheries and other bird environments but is not limited to those and can be found in the household.

The U.S.D.A. also performed another study to test the effectiveness of negative ionization at removing airborne Salmonella Enteritidis. The negative ions drastically reduced the airborne salmonella particles

http://www.negative-ion-generators.com/ion_studies.php

[Lady's Human]

Yes, salmonella can be airborne, but the main sources are in poultry houses, where is becomes airborne from dust contaminated with feces.

The site you quote for "negative Ion Generators" is a pseudo-scientific sales pitch, AKA snake oil salesmen of the 21st century.

BTW, "negative Ion Generators" would be more appropriately called Ozone generators. Ozone at ground level is a BAD thing, unless being used for a specific purpose, such as using it as PART of an antimicrobial filter system.

[dragondawg]

Myth 1: Dogs can not get Salmonella from a Raw Diet.

Any animal can host a Salmonella bacteria. The only rate limiting factor is how in tune the species and serotype is with the host. Likewise any animal can get sick on the toxins producted by the Salmonella no matter what the serotype, or original native host.

Let's start with an article that proves there's at least one Salmonella species capable of producing an enteric infection in a dog

Salmonella infection of dog

In the second reference article The investigation was conducted at the request of a Greyhound breeder. The article does not describe the symptoms present. Wonder why a breeder would result such an epidemiology study?

Salmonella vs raw diet on a breeding farm

Note the conclusions of the study: Feeding meat that had not been cooked properly, particularly meat classified as unfit for human consumption, likely contributed to the infections in these dogs. Unless you are getting the chicken parts certified by the USDA from the store then by definition it's unfit for human consumption.

The third article did some analysis on commercial Raw dog food.

Raw sold to the public

Salmonella enterica was recovered from 17 (5.9%) samples, all of which were raw meat products.

In general the following can be concluded per typical Salmonella contamination of a raw food diet:

1. A healthy young dog may be able to readily ward off infections caused by consumption of low numbers of Salmonella.

2. An older or immune compromised dog may not be able to cope with eating salmonella infected meat.

3. No dog will be able to escape illness if they consume meat where the Salmonella have previous grown and produced toxins.

But the dangers of a raw food diet do not stop with the dog. There is a lot of discussion about the feeding of a raw diet increasing the chances of the dog passing Salmonella infections to their owners, where the very young and old are in danger.

In browsing around I ran across this article that discussed other disease agents in a raw diet. For those who believe it's ok to feed raw pork:

Aujeszky's disease

The most dangerous virus infection to be transmitted to cats and dogs via raw pork leftovers is Aujeszky's disease. The dog or cat, which is the last link in the infection chain, suffers an agonizing death.

If I were feed raw chicken to my dogs, I'd be tossing the pieces into boiling water for a couple of minutes to scald the surface contamination. But then again, I'd cook the meat period, as there's no reason not to.